posted 01-03-2003 10:16 PM                  

Ken reprogrammed the PCM for the 3.5 in my 01 300M per the requests I made that he could meet w/o having the car on a dyno and it has worked out very well. I've been basically working on optimizing the efficiency of the stock engine to form a good baseline for a performance built this winter and had the car dyno'd at Ida Automotive yesterday with 5 pulls on the Dynojet. I sent Ken a graph of the 4th and 5th pulls overlayed and he said that's as good as they've gotten on a relatively stock 3.5 (naturally aspirated/no form of boost with stock iron exhaust manifolds and through full muffled exhaust system), but suggested aiding breathing further and that was already planned for next week for headers before I get into the block. If you check this link you'll catch some sights from Ida, a couple shots of Butchcee's twin turbo, and a shot of my dyno graph from the 4th and 5th pulls:
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=133611

Not to reopen a touchy subject I was glad to stay out of, but from all I've read, a stock Prowler rated at 253 crank HP usually pulls in the mid 170 RWHP range on a dyno due to drivetrain loss, so I don't feel too bad pulling 199.3 FWHP at this point. It's also about a given that the 42LE can result in about 30% HP loss, if not more. In round figures a 30% loss from 253 crank HP is 76 HP for a resultant 177 HP, just about what's being seen in other other dyno tests. If I'm also losing 30%, it would workout that I'm pulling about 285 crank HP, losing 30%/85.5 HP for a resultant 199.5 or so HP. Whatever, this is just an interim stage anyway that I'm very happy with. Thanks for the query I like to help when I can.

posted 01-04-2003 06:56 AM                  

On the PT that should make you one second faster. From 18.9 to 17.8 or so...

posted 01-04-2003 11:05 AM                  

I don't have before and after track results to offer, but you can toy with some figures at: http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_ETMPH.asp . Be sure to check out the stipulations in the accompanying text. Like it suggests, it doesn't work right for my combo since using the GVW below and 199 FWHP calcs to a 15.57 sec/87.52MPH 1/4, and I was doing 14.9s/99s before certain changes including the 2600 stall converter which it says it can't factor for.

I'm sure any performance benefit I'd see would be more so for a lighter vehicle. For vehicle weight I took the M to the track I work at and put it on the certified scales with 1/2 a tank of gas but with the full size spare out, and it weighed 3,595 to which I add my 220 and I then do math against a 3,815 GVW, but such things lead to arm chair racer debates I don't want to start or get into, so I'd rather wait for further dyno and sanctioned track results to see what's what.

posted 01-04-2003 02:20 PM                  

Here's the moment you've been waiting for. The results of our tests on Todd's Prowler.

Frankly, it looks really good for DaimlerChrysler and not so good for Kenne Bell. What we suspected was true about their cal already maxed out (MBT - Maximum Brake Torque) since it was designed using premium fuel. They did a great job of calibrating the engine.

It's hard to see from this JPEG, but we were able to gain about +3 > +5 hp at the top and we able to make about 12 to 15 horsepower at the shifts, which makes it feel quite a bit better.

Although the results aren't earth shattering, many other products offered on the market don't even come close when comparing "price to gain" value. SO, what we can offer are:

* Crisper, quicker WOT shifts
* Cooler fan settings
* Raising / Lowering of Rev limiters
* Raising / Lowering of Speed limiters
* Calibration of spark values for use with regular unleaded fuel for economy

For anyone interested in getting the upgrade, please contact Bob Wyman at OCSPEED (714) 526-3686 as he will be handling the POA member sales for us. We'd like to sincerely thank Todd Cameron once again for allowing us to use his car for the tests.

Best Regards,

posted 01-04-2003 03:27 PM                  

IMHO that's an honest assessment to which I'd like to add on your behalf that, from all I've picked up to date by reading and owning/driving, your programming can offer a good deal more bang for the buck to LH platform grocery getters, because 1) they are what they are and 2) DC programs them to behave as such, compared to Prowlers which DC designed and programs at the factory for out of the box performance.

That Todd's Kat and my M both maxed out kissing the 200 WHP mark on your programming is indicative of your equal effort for both cars and that beyond that point the 3.5L is into more foundational/nut & bolt issues that are common to the 3.5L regardless of the model it's in.

BTW Ken, if you have it, can you post a matching dyno graph from the before test of Todd's Kat or if unavailable some other bone stock pre-tweak late model Kat or M, or is the graph posted the near similar before and after runs, or two back-to-back after runs?

posted 01-04-2003 03:28 PM                  

Thanks for the feedback. You had mentioned some benefit of an open air filter or something. Can you share the results and what exactly you meant by open air (I may have used wrong term but whatever you posted earlier)...

posted 01-04-2003 04:26 PM                  

Sometimes HP isn't the most important, these four are a great addition, again thanks for your honesty, you are greatly admired by me and others..........

------------------

GaryC@ProwlerOnline.com
Prowler Products by GaryE, formally Carlini

posted 01-05-2003 04:35 AM                  

Do they mean:

• the tranny fan comes on earlier.
  
• RPM revs higher prior to shift.
  
• and the 13?? mph fuel cutoff is increased.
  

Is the mod the same for a paxton SC Kat?

posted 01-05-2003 02:56 PM                  

KB markets standardized programming parameters which I don't know, but I know they will work with ya. I had my own ideas to work out and did so on the phone with Jim Bell who is a cool guy to talk to much like John Stewart, and then Ken did his magic on the keyboard.

On your two points: Never having had a overheating problem, but in anticipation of pushing the limit with N2O, I went with a 160 degree fan mapping from the start companioned with a 160 thermostat. On the rev limiter I under estimated the potential of the engine and initially chose to move it out to 6800 based on gear ratio/tire circumference calcs relative to the speed/Rs coming through the traps. After getting it back in and running time trials it was clear the engine had a lot more to offer. So I revisited the calcs and figured I could take advantage of higher Rs to allow a slightly smaller tire circumference to boost the 0-60 windup and put the PCM back on a plane to have the plug pulled on the rev limiter all together which has provided full control to do what I gotta do to get where I gotta get.

posted 01-07-2003 12:28 PM                  

We tested the open air filter the way it should be tested: with the hood closed. The engine actually loses horsepower because it sucks in hot air from the open element. Notice the factory enclosed box is designed to suck in cool air. We do not want to get into a big debate over this - the fact is open element filters when exposed under the hood cause a horsepower loss. Why would the factory go through the expense of enclosing the filter and suck cool air from outside the engine compartment if they could get away with a cheaper open filter and just stick it under the hood somewhere?

Regarding the engine fan settings: we set them 15 degrees cooler than stock. In order for this be effective, the factory thermostat must be changed as well to a 180, otherwise the factory thermostat will still regulate the engine temperature to 195 and the fans will run all the time.

Rev limiter: The engine levels off in max horsepower at about 6500 rpm, so increasing the limiter very much above this will not do any good, unless some drastic power modifications to the powertrain has been made to shift the peak hp. Some customers actually want us to lower the factory limiter.

Speed limiter: We noticed that Todd's car had the limiter shut off from the factory, so raising it in others that are limited should not be an issue unless they changed something in the drivetrain and / or tire speed ratings.

Regards,

posted 11-16-2006 08:49 AM                  

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1/4 mile Prowler:
sorry for bring this topic back from the dead ... but wanted to ask if it's worth doing or not.... and if there has been any new products as well.

---

If I remember correctly, they didn't see the increase they thought they might get. i don't remember anyone getting it done and posting about it.

Chrysler is not good with letting their computer info out
making it harder for the aftermarket.

------------------
Larry & Sue Mayes

posted 11-17-2006 01:10 PM                  

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenne Bell:
Hi Everyone.

Here's the moment you've been waiting for. The results of our tests on Todd's Prowler.

Frankly, it looks really good for DaimlerChrysler and not so good for Kenne Bell. What we suspected was true about their cal already maxed out (MBT - Maximum Brake Torque) since it was designed using premium fuel. They did a great job of calibrating the engine.

It's hard to see from this JPEG, but we were able to gain about +3 > +5 hp at the top and we able to make about 12 to 15 horsepower at the shifts, which makes it feel quite a bit better.

Although the results aren't earth shattering, many other products offered on the market don't even come close when comparing "price to gain" value. SO, what we can offer are:

* Crisper, quicker WOT shifts
* Cooler fan settings
* Raising / Lowering of Rev limiters
* Raising / Lowering of Speed limiters
* Calibration of spark values for use with regular unleaded fuel for economy

For anyone interested in getting the upgrade, please contact Bob Wyman at OCSPEED (714) 526-3686 as he will be handling the POA member sales for us. We'd like to sincerely thank Todd Cameron once again for allowing us to use his car for the tests.

Best Regards,

Kenne Bell

---

posted 10-02-2014 01:42 PM                  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8zKxWBDzWE&feature=youtu.be

I didn't realize how old this post was but I will leave it alone.

posted 10-02-2014 07:26 PM                  

I once had a prowler dyno experience that changed everything. Owning a prowler over 10 years at the time. My local car club in miami at the time had a dyno day. I pulled up with the prowler everyone was amazed people took pictures I felt great.

Then I got on the dyno, with all my mods, exhaust, intake, gears, headers I was ready for action I never thought my car was slow.

The video http://youtu.be/69VCVugARQU

Then I got off the dyno with a best of 193.5 hp. The bad thing was people started to laugh at me. Everyone with there modern muscle cars and rice bangers, They couldn't believe the hot rod prowler was low on power. I personally had a 250hp figure in my head. 190's hurt!!

I had the lowest Hp of every car at the show besides a Hyundai Tiburon. Another guy with a SRT-4 neon punched out like 320hp.

I will never forgot that day. Let's just say from that day Forward everything changed and the quest for a go fast prowler began!

Now with a Hemi I don't think I will try it again! Going wide open throttle with so much TQ and HP may leave the Trans on the stand! LOL