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T O P I C     R E V I E W
Bob Miller	Anyone ever buy one of these kits and install it? Pros/Cons? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=7940444682&rd=1
xpguy	Bob, I fell for this. I have an old post somewhere about putting this on and then taking it off. I switched to Real Rod's Ram Air Panels to get true cold air induction. The kit I got was very cheap and did not include a heat shield. The angle of the tube was not correct for the confined area, and the quality of the filter was poor. I must add that my kit was not from this company. The kit I bought is still on eBay, and there are usually three or four up there at any one time.
cmblockhus	Bob If you want this type of intake I have one on my car and many of the POA members do it came from a member named Bill Gallegar his product line is MTD has a good kit I for one am very happy with mine they cost more but you get what you pay for. JMO block-buster ------------------
weswman	I have installed that same one and took it off. The shield doesn't let enough air come in. I bought one with a K&N filter without shield. Way better.
Bob Miller	Really appreciate the feed-back!
Al's Prowler	quote: Originally posted by weswman: The shield doesn't let enough air come in. I bought one with a K&N filter without shield. I believe the shield was added to help deflects some of the heat from getting sucked into the intake. Al
Ronald Heintschel	So is the K&N or the one from Bill Gallegar the best air cleaner Would like also to replace the original air filter Happy Holidays Ron
halicat	hey ron, check out what ggrowl has to say about intake in the tech questions section...
Ronald Heintschel	looked but can't find the post how far back thanks
halicat	sorry ron .. its the first one, intake vs exhaust technical questions and answers.. This message has been edited by halicat on 12-11-2004 at 08:33 AM
GRROWL	Thanks for the reference, but there's A LOT POSTED, some of it even very scientific. Unfortunately, I don't recall any conclusions and you'll have to draw your own based on the tests. I STRONGLY suggest pushing the "Search" function to its limits on this one. Tests were even run using temperature sensors and flow readings (I believe the latter used the on-board diagnostics). On the matter of stock airbox vs. aftermarket (I have, and will use the MTD 2.2 as an example), simple physics is at play with the comparison basically: Stock: brings in cool air (ambient through the doorjamb), standard paper filter restrictions and flow restrictions due to bends in ducting and the distance, vs. Aftermarket: higher flow, hot air (less dense drawn in from underhood). Since hot air is less dense it contains less oxygen. In the prowler, there seems to be problems in flowing the hot air out of the engine compartment and it is MUCH higher than a standard car (I believe the tests showed 60 degree hotter than ambient). This is where side louvers help. I was looking forward to a conclusion from the experiments, and I still hope one is forthcoming. What is the optimum solution? What part do side louvers play? Is there a good ducting solution? (The one I saw had a LOT of turns). Also realize that to properly do the comparisons on a dyno requires a fan synchronized to the wheel speed (i.e., at 60 mph at the wheels, the "wind" is also 60 mph to duplicate the proper underhood temperature). Until this is all resolved, I recommend the compromise of a high-flow (K&N-type) standard size replacement filter in the stock airbox. -GRROWL P.S. - The way the shield is positioned (at least on the MTD), I don't believe it is reducing air flow at all. I consider the shield necessary to protect some wires (some people have reported shorting out wires when the aftermarket filter pushed them into sheetmetal edges). P.P.S. - The MTD had REAL problems (the filter fell off, letting unfiltered air and dirt directly into the engine). I don't know if this has been resolved and I would caution against buying a used (or old stock) on this one. P.P.P.S. - There was a REALLY slick ram-air solution using parts from a Japanese car where the hood scoop engaged the intake through a large flexible gasket when the hood was closed. I see possible water problems, but it certainly solved the flow problem and added ram-air pressure. P.P.P.P.S. - If you want to be able to return your car to stock, the survey says: "Most people break the stock airbox when removing it". There's a hidden screw behind the coolant tank. Contrary to other opinions, I STILL recommend combining the airbox removal (IF you decide to do it) with a coolant change so you can remove the coolant tank first. This message has been edited by GRROWL on 12-11-2004 at 09:43 AM
GRROWL	Here's a picture from Pumpkin that illustrates 3 of the points I made above: 1. The shield is needed to protect the wires to its rear (actually, I rotated mine up more at the rear to fully protect that wire bundle - that's where the individual wires fan out and are subject to damage) 2. With the way the shield is positioned, I don't see it unduly restricting the airflow 3. Look at the foam with the vertical cutout to the rear of the filter that pumpkin left in for illustrative purposes (you should take it out with an aftermarket install). That cutout is the intake area for the original airbox where it draws the cool air in from the doorjamb. You can imagine the restriction and ducting/bends to get from there to the engine. Leaving out the foam will either bring in more cool air through the door area, or give a larger area to eliminate hot air (I don't know which, but either is beneficial). To START your search: Search Words: MTD 2.2 All Forums Entire Message Any Date User Name: GRROWL (If you just use the search words, you'll get too many hits from everyone listing the MTD 2.2 in their tagline)
Ronald Heintschel	where can i find a MTD 2.2 air filter Thanks Ron
GRROWL	quote: Originally posted by Ronald Heintschel: where can i find a MTD 2.2 air filter Thanks Ron Unless there is some update that fixes the known problem, I would avoid it. quote: Originally posted by Black Tie 161: For the record, my MTD 2.2 filter intake seperated from the base due to cheap glue. I refit it with 3M tape. quote: Originally posted by GRROWL: Two problems with the MTD - 1. They fall apart and allow unfiltered air into the engine, it's been posted a lot, you can find it with a search. 2. There has been a lot of discussion about how it takes in HOT underhood air vs. the stock airbox taking in ambient air through the doorframe, a search will also show this. Best option may be a free-flow filter in the stock box. -GRROWL This is the piece that falls off when the glue melts from the high underhood temperature:
halicat	best to steer clear of it.. dirt in the engine can be mucho $$$$$$ !
ALLEY CAT	In all fairness to Bill Gallagher and his MTD intake,,,,,it looks like the picture above is from his Generation 2 system, which I cannot comment on,,,having not owned. His Generation 1 system,I have on my silver cat and am really happy with it. After 20,000 miles, I pulled off the cone filter to examine and clean. It did it's job in collecting the dirt/debris on the outside of the element, and was looking clean on the inside. I cleaned it and used the K&N spray,,and reinstalled. No problems at all. The original MTD system did draw on air near the ground and ahead of the cat converter. I believe Bill changed his design because of concerns about the first system sucking up water,,,,which I can understand his concern if somebody was going to go after him via a lawsuit for an expired motor due to water pickup through his air intake tube. If I lived in a rainy area where flooded streets are common, I would probably replace my system. Since I don't,,,I feel the original MTD setup works great for me, was fairly priced at the time [comparing to Mack Motorsports system], and used quality parts that have gone through 27,000 miles on my silver cat without 'any' problems. JMO If Bill changed the quality, prices, or placed his second type system in a bad location,,,,,,,,I have no knowledge of other than what you guys report back on. I believe Bill's intentions were in helping the Prowler community, not in harming it.
Ronald Heintschel	Ok thanks Look likes the best thing to buy is a stock replacement K&N filter
halicat	thats what i'm going for ron....when you think about it , alot of thinking went into developing the existing system, just a change to a k & n might be the safest option.
idive	FYI - I think the airbox temp work was done and posted by blue bullet (sp). I have an idea in mind to provide ram air directly to the aftermarket air filter, or ram air to the stock airbox. This idea provides a closed system, and would have a drain system before the filter to allow for driving in the rain. It would also provide more airflow to cool the underhood temps. At this point, its just in the thought stage, but I saw a similar setup on a '32 that gave me the idea. Not only would it be functional, but would also make for an interesting exterior mod as well. I think it could all be done for a reasonable price too. I need to look at some cars better to see if this will work, (Marty's is ideal) and I would probably get Bob Goetz to make the needed parts, if he is interested.
Orange	I really havn't looked into this, but is there anyway to route a pipe to the front of the car (i.e. right behind the grill?).
GRROWL	quote: Originally posted by Orange: I really havn't looked into this, but is there anyway to route a pipe to the front of the car (i.e. right behind the grill?). It's been done (but not perfected): http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001155.html -GRROWL
GRROWL	quote: Originally posted by idive: FYI - I think the airbox temp work was done and posted by blue bullet (sp). Here's the work, nothing definitive. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001164.html
GRROWL	quote: Originally posted by GRROWL: P.P.P.S. - There was a REALLY slick ram-air solution using parts from a Japanese car where the hood scoop engaged the intake through a large flexible gasket when the hood was closed. I see possible water problems, but it certainly solved the flow problem and added ram-air pressure. Here it is. It was done by SPCL-T about a year ago. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001181.html quote: Originally posted by dpena: I LOVE IT!!