posted 10-07-2013 01:56 PM                  

anyone has had that problem and/or knows where to get a pump for cheaper?

Additional problem. Never start on 1st crank when HOT.
For many years my cat start on the 1st time when cold, but when it is Hot, it requires always 2 start. The engine revs, but doe not want to start on 1st crank. I had gone to 2 different mechanics, and both gave me a different reading. One said that my cylinder 3 & 5 was misfiring, and the other said it was 1 & 4. Telling me that I had to change the modules/coils on those cylinders. at $50 each. No consistencies. They also told me the only way to tell, is to replace 2 at a time and put it back on the computer. I did not quite like their answers/diagnostics. So I let it ride.

Now the Smog guy tells me that the Leaks detector pump could have been the culprit all along, and creating the misfiring.

So Phil Manzak suggested to get a leak detection test, (thanks Phil BTTW- I'm just trying to play out all my options) but those are about $50.... and not sure if it's gonna help, and not quite sure how to use it! Could it be a broken hose, or bad pump...

Any other suggestions anyone?

Michel

posted 10-07-2013 03:20 PM                  

The pump itself USUALLY is not what fails, Most likely it will be a hose.

posted 10-07-2013 03:24 PM                  

Bob, from the pictures below, can you tell us which hoses were bad?

Thanks

posted 10-07-2013 04:34 PM                  

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posted 10-07-2013 05:53 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelredcat:

Additional problem. Never start on 1st crank when HOT.

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This is the classic first symptom of a fuel pump going bad. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003365.html

posted 10-08-2013 10:25 AM                  

Anybody knows.....
1- Where can I find AL's tool, or find AL himself to contact him?
2- Beside the dealer, is the fuel pump an only dealer items? is it really $600+ for the fuel pump? ouch..
3- the connector clips are they male of female
4- need the copper tool to remove the red and black wire

I want to make myself a check list to make sure I have everything when I start removing the pump.... Don't want to have to order a missing part and with another week with the car apart.!

Michel

posted 10-08-2013 10:40 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by catfish:
the leak detection pump is in the rr mounted to the frame rail at rt side of gas tank

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Catfish,

I read your post about the leak detection pump (LDP) being located on the fuel tank... the Smog guy pointed out an LDP under the hood next to the hood hinge passenger side... could this one be a different detection pump for emissions?

do you know by any chance?

Michel

posted 10-08-2013 01:04 PM                  

Also read this thread. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004640.html

Here's the info on the neon pump rebuild kit.
APE (Auto Performance Engineering in Dallas area 972-530-8729) ORDER FUEL PUMP KIT GCA761 $115.50 - 866-383-5786 - 95-99" Neon 255 ltr/hr - order 7a-8a or 7p-9p
$115.50 + $7.22 tax = $122.72 total
Don't forget to get the square o-ring from a dealer.

You can get the pump removal tool at Autozone, but they will have to order it for you. They don't stock it in house. Will take 2 or 3 days to get it in. Cost is around $25 I think. Part number is 25156.

Your problem sounds to me to be a bad fuel pump. This can be determined by checking the pressure at the pump before the filter. Otherwise I would check the hoses pointed out above coming off the tank. That might be a cheaper fix than the pump rebuild kit. Certainly, both wouldn't be a bad idea to replace anyway. Hopefully someone can point out which hoses is being referred to for all of us to benefit.
Generally speaking, when the leak detection pump is diagnosed, its usually cracked hoses. But the hard warm starts issue is an indicator of a failing fuel pump.

The leak detection pump is near the right rear tire.

posted 10-08-2013 02:41 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelredcat:

Anybody knows.....
1- Where can I find AL's tool, or find AL himself to contact him?

Michel

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At Autozone, or order from their website or store....probably not in stock at the stores... About $20
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Fuel-pump-module-spanner-wrench?itemIdentifier=110278

posted 10-24-2013 12:46 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by idive:

Here's the info on the neon pump rebuild kit.
APE (Auto Performance Engineering in Dallas area 972-530-8729) ORDER FUEL PUMP KIT GCA761 $115.50 - 866-383-5786 - 95-99" Neon 255 ltr/hr - order 7a-8a or 7p-9p
$115.50 + $7.22 tax = $122.72 total
Don't forget to get the square o-ring from a dealer.

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Idive,

are the 2 part mentioned above 2 separate pump rebuild kit? (GCA761 $115.50 + Neon 255 ltr/hr - order 7a-8a or 7p-9p $115.50 )

or is it the same pump kit ordered from 2 different locations??

Michel

posted 11-30-2013 09:47 PM                  

After spending over $210 on the pump and the 2 short hoses that one member suggested to replace (they were expensive Close to $70 for both) and I discovered that I did not even need them. I found out that there was a small 90 degree angel hose that was attached to a rigid pipe behind the pump (not visible when the pump is mounted) and that was the culprit..the hose was cracked or ripped off at the corner of the 90 degree angle....causing the LPD to fail and show up on the Smog test failure codes. After all I only needed to replace this little hose.

I could not wait and go to dealer and order this little 90 degree hose, so I cut the rubber hose on the old LDP pump at the 90 degree angle and made one up with that. I had to drive the car about 250miles before the Smog guy could retest me.

I passed with Flying colors... So be aware, all you may need to replace is this little 90 degree hose, and not the LDP and the 2 big hoses attached to the LDP.

Et voila... I attached some photos to see the process.

Below I am holding the 90 degree hose that was broken.

This is the ridgid pipe that the 90 degree rubber/broken hose was attached to.

the hose on the OLD LDP I cut to fabricate a make shift 90 degree hose.

The new LDP pump (unecessarily) installed and 2 new hoses...

Broken 90 degree hoses (2 broken parts) laid as if it was not broken

same 90 degree broken hose ... but found a way to make an alternative.... see above.

Hope the pictures help the next person that can save money!

Michel

posted 11-30-2013 09:58 PM                  

After spending over $210 on the pump and the 2 short hoses that one member suggested to replace (they were expensive Close to $70 for both) and I discovered that I did not even need them, and possibly not even the LDP pump either. I found out that there was a small 90 degree angel hose that was attached to a rigid pipe behind the pump (not visible when the pump is mounted) and that was the culprit..the hose was cracked or ripped off at the corner of the 90 degree angle....causing the LPD to fail and show up on the Smog test failure codes. After all I only needed to replace this little hose.

I could not wait and go to dealer and order this little 90 degree hose, so I cut the rubber hose on the old LDP pump at the 90 degree angle and made one up with that. I had to drive the car about 250miles before the Smog guy could retest me.

I passed with Flying colors... So be aware, all you may need to replace is this little 90 degree hose, and not the LDP and the 2 big hoses attached to the LDP.

Et voila... I attached some photos to see the process.

Below I am holding the 90 degree hose that was broken.

This is the ridgid pipe that the 90 degree rubber/broken hose was attached to.

the hose on the LDP I cut to fabricate a make shift 90 degree hose.

The new LDP pump (unecessarily) installed and 2 new hoses...

Broken 90 degree hoses (2 broken parts) laid as if it was not broken

same 90 degree broken hose ... but found a way to make an alternative.... see above.

Hope the pictures help the next person that can save money!

Michel

posted 03-03-2014 01:46 AM                  

That's what I did! I was stuck replacing my LDP pump on a Sunday, when I discovered that the problem was that Other 90 degree hose that I was missing that did not come with LDP... and I was not about to wait put everything back, until Monday to order one, wait a week for delivery... so I tried this... And it worked! No problem since!

Now it is possible that for having used the "old" hose from the older LDP, that the rubber might be brittle, and will possibly be called to tear because of the vibration (which I assume is what tore the other one open) but I shall deal with this problem when I get there!... I know what to look for next time my car fails the Smog in 2 years!!

Michel

posted 02-10-2016 04:39 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by ed monahan:
Thanks for taking the time to post pictures and explain what was the culprit. That may come in handy in the future for someone.

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posted 02-11-2016 01:44 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by RPL:
That's the hose I was referring to. Thanks for posting the pictures!

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posted 02-11-2016 09:31 PM                  

if your cat does not start right away when COLD, but does when warm, then it is NOT your LDP... but your "Fuel Pump" that needs replacing.

There's a thread on this issue on this site, where many have replaced their fuel pump, including me. The Prowler fuel pump will set you back $350-$450, but there's a compromise, where one can get Chrysler Neon fuel pump for +- $108 +S&H online and it is EXACTLY the same, except for the electrical connector... which can be easily remedied.

BTW I had the exact same problem on my Dodge Dakota P/U truck... where I had to COLD crank the engine 2-3 times before it started...to the point that i burnt up a starter.... same with the Prowler. (it takes a toll on the starter).

related links on POA

http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022087.html

http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021618.html

http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003719-3.html

Michel