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anyone has had that problem and/or knows where to get a pump for cheaper? Additional problem. Never start on 1st crank when HOT. Now the Smog guy tells me that the Leaks detector pump could have been the culprit all along, and creating the misfiring. So Phil Manzak suggested to get a leak detection test, (thanks Phil BTTW- I'm just trying to play out all my options) but those are about $50.... and not sure if it's gonna help, and not quite sure how to use it! Could it be a broken hose, or bad pump... Any other suggestions anyone? Michel ------------------ The pump itself USUALLY is not what fails, Most likely it will be a hose. This message has been edited by phil2237 on 10-07-2013 at 03:23 PM Thanks This message has been edited by ALLEY CAT on 10-07-2013 at 08:27 PM ------------------ This message has been edited by catfish on 10-07-2013 at 04:41 PM Additional problem. Never start on 1st crank when HOT. This is the classic first symptom of a fuel pump going bad. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003365.html This message has been edited by catfish on 10-07-2013 at 06:53 PM Anybody knows..... I want to make myself a check list to make sure I have everything when I start removing the pump.... Don't want to have to order a missing part and with another week with the car apart.! This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 10-08-2013 at 10:34 AM Catfish, I read your post about the leak detection pump (LDP) being located on the fuel tank... the Smog guy pointed out an LDP under the hood next to the hood hinge passenger side... could this one be a different detection pump for emissions? do you know by any chance? This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 10-08-2013 at 10:41 AM Also read this thread. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004640.html Here's the info on the neon pump rebuild kit. You can get the pump removal tool at Autozone, but they will have to order it for you. They don't stock it in house. Will take 2 or 3 days to get it in. Cost is around $25 I think. Part number is 25156. Your problem sounds to me to be a bad fuel pump. This can be determined by checking the pressure at the pump before the filter. Otherwise I would check the hoses pointed out above coming off the tank. That might be a cheaper fix than the pump rebuild kit. Certainly, both wouldn't be a bad idea to replace anyway. Hopefully someone can point out which hoses is being referred to for all of us to benefit. The leak detection pump is near the right rear tire. This message has been edited by idive on 10-08-2013 at 01:19 PM Anybody knows..... Michel At Autozone, or order from their website or store....probably not in stock at the stores... About $20 Idive, or is it the same pump kit ordered from 2 different locations?? Michel This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 10-24-2013 at 12:47 PM After spending over $210 on the pump and the 2 short hoses that one member suggested to replace (they were expensive Close to $70 for both) and I discovered that I did not even need them. I found out that there was a small 90 degree angel hose that was attached to a rigid pipe behind the pump (not visible when the pump is mounted) and that was the culprit..the hose was cracked or ripped off at the corner of the 90 degree angle....causing the LPD to fail and show up on the Smog test failure codes. After all I only needed to replace this little hose. I could not wait and go to dealer and order this little 90 degree hose, so I cut the rubber hose on the old LDP pump at the 90 degree angle and made one up with that. I had to drive the car about 250miles before the Smog guy could retest me. I passed with Flying colors... So be aware, all you may need to replace is this little 90 degree hose, and not the LDP and the 2 big hoses attached to the LDP. Et voila... I attached some photos to see the process. Below I am holding the 90 degree hose that was broken. the hose on the OLD LDP I cut to fabricate a make shift 90 degree hose. Broken 90 degree hoses (2 broken parts) laid as if it was not broken same 90 degree broken hose ... but found a way to make an alternative.... see above. Hope the pictures help the next person that can save money! This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 12-01-2013 at 10:27 AM After spending over $210 on the pump and the 2 short hoses that one member suggested to replace (they were expensive Close to $70 for both) and I discovered that I did not even need them, and possibly not even the LDP pump either. I found out that there was a small 90 degree angel hose that was attached to a rigid pipe behind the pump (not visible when the pump is mounted) and that was the culprit..the hose was cracked or ripped off at the corner of the 90 degree angle....causing the LPD to fail and show up on the Smog test failure codes. After all I only needed to replace this little hose. I could not wait and go to dealer and order this little 90 degree hose, so I cut the rubber hose on the old LDP pump at the 90 degree angle and made one up with that. I had to drive the car about 250miles before the Smog guy could retest me. I passed with Flying colors... So be aware, all you may need to replace is this little 90 degree hose, and not the LDP and the 2 big hoses attached to the LDP. Et voila... I attached some photos to see the process. Below I am holding the 90 degree hose that was broken. the hose on the LDP I cut to fabricate a make shift 90 degree hose. Broken 90 degree hoses (2 broken parts) laid as if it was not broken same 90 degree broken hose ... but found a way to make an alternative.... see above. Hope the pictures help the next person that can save money! This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 03-03-2014 at 04:13 AM That's what I did! I was stuck replacing my LDP pump on a Sunday, when I discovered that the problem was that Other 90 degree hose that I was missing that did not come with LDP... and I was not about to wait put everything back, until Monday to order one, wait a week for delivery... so I tried this... And it worked! No problem since! Michel This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 03-03-2014 at 03:34 AM if your cat does not start right away when COLD, but does when warm, then it is NOT your LDP... but your "Fuel Pump" that needs replacing. There's a thread on this issue on this site, where many have replaced their fuel pump, including me. The Prowler fuel pump will set you back $350-$450, but there's a compromise, where one can get Chrysler Neon fuel pump for +- $108 +S&H online and it is EXACTLY the same, except for the electrical connector... which can be easily remedied. BTW I had the exact same problem on my Dodge Dakota P/U truck... where I had to COLD crank the engine 2-3 times before it started...to the point that i burnt up a starter.... same with the Prowler. (it takes a toll on the starter). related links on POA http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022087.html http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021618.html http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003719-3.html Michel This message has been edited by Michelredcat on 02-11-2016 at 09:36 PM Michelredcat Hi all, I went to get smog and did not pass. The computer system pointed out to the Leak detection pump. It's under the hood, by passenger side close to fire wall by the hood hinge. After looking around at pep boys, and other car parts, it appears to be a Dealer items only.... $200 for this little bugger....
For many years my cat start on the 1st time when cold, but when it is Hot, it requires always 2 start. The engine revs, but doe not want to start on 1st crank. I had gone to 2 different mechanics, and both gave me a different reading. One said that my cylinder 3 & 5 was misfiring, and the other said it was 1 & 4. Telling me that I had to change the modules/coils on those cylinders. at $50 each. No consistencies. They also told me the only way to tell, is to replace 2 at a time and put it back on the computer. I did not quite like their answers/diagnostics. So I let it ride.
MichelRPL Check the vapor hoses that pass over the fuel tank in the rear. You can see many of them looking through the wheel housing with a flash light. These hoses have been deteriorating from the ethanol in the fuel. I've had some bad ones on the passenger side. If the hoses are leaking, it will show up as a defective leak detection pump. phil2237 A leak detection test is needed, before you spend tons of money. It is very hard to determine if a vacuum hose is bad just by looking at it. The test rules that out. Usually a smoke test will tell you right away where the bad hose would be.
The kits you buy at the auto parts store work quite well & they come with very easy to follow instructions.ALLEY CAT quote: "I've had some bad ones on the passenger side."
Bob, from the pictures below, can you tell us which hoses were bad?catfish the leak detection pump is in the rr mounted to the frame rail at rt side of gas tank.you could also have bad hoses 2 of them,available only at mopar and very very expensive.ck the hoses first,you will have to remove rt rr wheel.theres also a small canister for emission that i would also replace part #1-0585164aa.if your mech. inclined
i would remove the two hoses and go to a parts store and match them up with some hoses from another brand of car,might save you some money,if i remembe those 2 small hoses are like 160.00.cstall quote:
Originally posted by Michelredcat:catfish a bad leak detection pump will not cause a misfire, period .mine needs a ldp and has for months,just havent changed it yet and there is no misfire from it.replace the hoses first.--------------- RPL Agreed, a leak or bad pump will not cause a miss. It will set a MIL. A defective fuel pump, which isn't uncommon will cause hard start. Bad coil packs will cause a miss. You need someone that can diagnose the root cause of your problem. Guessing is what a qualified technical does. They check firsts and replace only when necessary. With the different miss-fire codes displayed, I'd look at fuel delivery....the fuel pump first. I may well be wrong. Michelredcat I just saw the post from cstall above linking to another discussion post from dpena (Howard) with some great pictures on how to remove/replace the fuel pump... and requiring some special tool from AL....
1- Where can I find AL's tool, or find AL himself to contact him?
2- Beside the dealer, is the fuel pump an only dealer items? is it really $600+ for the fuel pump? ouch..
3- the connector clips are they male of female
4- need the copper tool to remove the red and black wire
MichelMichelredcat quote:
Originally posted by catfish:
the leak detection pump is in the rr mounted to the frame rail at rt side of gas tank
Michelidive Read this on the fuel pump rebuild kit. DO NOT get an OEM fuel pump! http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003719.html
APE (Auto Performance Engineering in Dallas area 972-530-8729) ORDER FUEL PUMP KIT GCA761 $115.50 - 866-383-5786 - 95-99" Neon 255 ltr/hr - order 7a-8a or 7p-9p
$115.50 + $7.22 tax = $122.72 total
Don't forget to get the square o-ring from a dealer.
Generally speaking, when the leak detection pump is diagnosed, its usually cracked hoses. But the hard warm starts issue is an indicator of a failing fuel pump.ALLEY CAT quote:
Originally posted by Michelredcat:
1- Where can I find AL's tool, or find AL himself to contact him?
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Fuel-pump-module-spanner-wrench?itemIdentifier=110278 Michelredcat quote:
Originally posted by idive:
Here's the info on the neon pump rebuild kit.
APE (Auto Performance Engineering in Dallas area 972-530-8729) ORDER FUEL PUMP KIT GCA761 $115.50 - 866-383-5786 - 95-99" Neon 255 ltr/hr - order 7a-8a or 7p-9p
$115.50 + $7.22 tax = $122.72 total
Don't forget to get the square o-ring from a dealer.
are the 2 part mentioned above 2 separate pump rebuild kit? (GCA761 $115.50 + Neon 255 ltr/hr - order 7a-8a or 7p-9p $115.50 )idive It is the part number of the kit, what it is, times to order it, cost, who to order it from, and their contact info. Call the number and order the kit number GCA761. It does not come with the new square o-ring that you will also need to get, but will need to get that from your local dealer. Michelredcat Update on replacing LDP pump.
This is the ridgid pipe that the 90 degree rubber/broken hose was attached to.
The new LDP pump (unecessarily) installed and 2 new hoses...
MichelMichelredcat Update on replacing LDP pump.
This is the ridgid pipe that the 90 degree rubber/broken hose was attached to.
The new LDP pump (unecessarily) installed and 2 new hoses...
Micheled monahan Thanks for taking the time to post pictures and explain what was the culprit. That may come in handy in the future for someone. garysss Thanks again for posting, as these cars get older I'm sure we will all have this problem sooner or later. prowlrman I just found the same problem on my car. Anyone know where to find this little elbow hose? I have not had the chance to check the dealer yet.... Michelredcat Well if you look at the picture I posted, and where my index finger is pointing to, (labeled "the hose on the LDP I cut to fabricate a make shift 90 degree hose) you can utilize the longer 90 degree hose attached to old LDP Pump- at a different location of pump, (if you buy a new one pump you can dispose of old longer hose) and essentially cut the "corner" of that hose at about 1" at each corner, and use this hose as a replacement..... cuz it has already a 90 degree factory turn in the hose...
Now it is possible that for having used the "old" hose from the older LDP, that the rubber might be brittle, and will possibly be called to tear because of the vibration (which I assume is what tore the other one open) but I shall deal with this problem when I get there!... I know what to look for next time my car fails the Smog in 2 years!!syswayne1939 quote:
Originally posted by ed monahan:
Thanks for taking the time to post pictures and explain what was the culprit. That may come in handy in the future for someone.
I have to start on mine next week. Getting a code pop up that is large leak in emission system. Checked the front one and it was fine. Hope I don't have to take the fuel tank off. Wonder if I need to go ahead and purchase a LDP since Orielly has themRPL That's the hose I was referring to. Thanks for posting the pictures! syswayne1939 quote:
Originally posted by RPL:
That's the hose I was referring to. Thanks for posting the pictures!
Well I was taking mine Prowler in to fix the LPD, since I had checked all the hoses, everything else and might as well try a new gas cap before I go take it in. I can not believe that was the problem. Light does not come on at all. When cold turns over few more time before starts, but I will take that any time. FYI RPL The gas cap can often be the issue. Glad that you found your issue. Leaks in the evaporative emission system can be a challenge. They use smoke to look for small leaks. Michelredcat "Light does not come on at all. When cold turns over few more time before starts, but I will take that any time. FYI"
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