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Author Topic:   Hard Starting when Hot
prowlrman

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From:Phoenix, AZ USA
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posted 06-13-2008 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for prowlrman     send a private message to prowlrman   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by prowlrman
Much like Cool Cat 1's post, I have also noted longer cranking times lately when starting my car after the engine is warm. It starts almost immediately when cold, but cranks far too long after the engine is warm and I restart. I have even had to stop cranking for a moment and then try starting again before it fires. I have just noticed this the past few times I drove the car and it was not like this previously.

I have not had time to check out but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this? Maybe fuel pump?? Car is a 2001 and has 14,000 miles on it.

Not noticing any fuel smell or higher gas usage as reported by Cool Cat on his.

idive


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posted 06-13-2008 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for idive     send a private message to idive   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by idive
quote:
Originally posted by prowlrman:
Much like Cool Cat 1's post, I have also noted longer cranking times lately when starting my car after the engine is warm. It starts almost immediately when cold, but cranks far too long after the engine is warm and I restart. I have even had to stop cranking for a moment and then try starting again before it fires. I have just noticed this the past few times I drove the car and it was not like this previously.

I have not had time to check out but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this? Maybe fuel pump?? Car is a 2001 and has 14,000 miles on it.

Not noticing any fuel smell or higher gas usage as reported by Cool Cat on his.



I have your exact problem. I am told it is the fuel pump. Mine is a 97 with 16K. No gas smell. No gas consumption difference.
Howard


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posted 06-13-2008 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Howard     send a private message to Howard   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Howard
Replace your fuel pump by dpena.
http://www.prowlerexcitement.com/FuelPumpInstall/index.htm

http://www.prowlerexcitement.com/FuelPumpInstall/Complete/index.htm

This message has been edited by Howard on 06-13-2008 at 11:35 AM

catfish




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posted 06-13-2008 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for catfish     send a private message to catfish   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by catfish
mine turns over 3 or 4 time then starts.it must be that 4.50 a gallon gas.i dont think its the pump.when it wont start then ck it.

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ed monahan





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posted 06-14-2008 01:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     send a private message to ed monahan   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by ed monahan
I had that problem on my first 99. Started on the first crank when cold, 3 or 4 cranks after it was warmed up. EVERY time.
Low fuel pressure due to a bad pump. There have been numerous reports here on POA with the same symptoms and same solution.

No smell of gasoline or higher consumption, either.

This message has been edited by ed monahan on 06-14-2008 at 01:38 AM

Steve Conley





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posted 06-14-2008 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Conley     send a private message to Steve Conley   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Steve Conley
I had the same problem with my 99 with 59,000 on it. Replaced fuelpump as per Depena and Prowler excitement. instructions, but made my own removeal tool out of a metal strap. Runs great and STARTS great. Could never have done it without this site.
catfish




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posted 06-14-2008 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for catfish     send a private message to catfish   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by catfish
sounds like a low pressure problem from the pump.if any body needs a prowler pump,i have one like new-200.00.

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WildCat





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posted 06-15-2008 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WildCat     send a private message to WildCat   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by WildCat
mine did the same thing...FUEL PUMP is bad

installed one from a guy in Texas, when I got it, was about $115 for the pump, had to disassemble the pump/housing and change the connectors

It has been about 10,000 miles since and it starts quickly every time

This message has been edited by WildCat on 06-15-2008 at 08:24 PM

prowlrman

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posted 06-17-2008 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for prowlrman     send a private message to prowlrman   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by prowlrman
Thanks for the responses...I suspected a pump and looks like many have experienced the same conditions...too busy the next few weeks with work and out of town meetings to jump on it, but when I do find a pump and change it out I'll respond back with results.
quincy



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posted 06-17-2008 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for quincy     send a private message to quincy   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by quincy
I don't get it. My 99 with only 10K miles does the same thing. (starts easy cold, starts hard;three tries, hot). Once running you can keep your foot buried on the gas peddle and the engine does not miss a beat. You would think if the pump was bad the engine would starve for fuel at high RPM. Could it be vapor lock? How can so many pumps have this issue at such low miles? Many have stated that installing the high performance Neon fuel pump corrected the issue, but what a hassle. Next time I'm out for a cruise I will try Kraut's recommendation:Turn key on for at least 5 seconds prior to engaging starter when engine is hot. I will report back.
catfish




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posted 06-17-2008 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for catfish     send a private message to catfish   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by catfish
i had one pump that worked fine until half full,after that it would start fine and idle fine.when you accelerated it would not og,that is,acted like it was out of gas,changed pump all was ok.besides reg.pumps are crap.

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WildCat





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posted 06-17-2008 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WildCat     send a private message to WildCat   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by WildCat
quote:
Originally posted by quincy:
I don't get it. My 99 with only 10K miles does the same thing. (starts easy cold, starts hard;three tries, hot). Once running you can keep your foot buried on the gas peddle and the engine does not miss a beat. You would think if the pump was bad the engine would starve for fuel at high RPM. Could it be vapor lock? How can so many pumps have this issue at such low miles? Many have stated that installing the high performance Neon fuel pump corrected the issue, but what a hassle. Next time I'm out for a cruise I will try Kraut's recommendation:Turn key on for at least 5 seconds prior to engaging starter when engine is hot. I will report back.


my thoughts exactly, before I changed my pump

start right up cold, after running usually 3 attempts to get running, full throttle acceleration run strong just like new

changed pump, starts good cold & hot, GO FIGURE

SuperDave


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posted 07-07-2008 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SuperDave     send a private message to SuperDave   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by SuperDave
The fuel pump on my stock 1997 model finally gave out, cold starts were slow as fuel pressure wasn't maintained. I am a klutz so I took my Walbro replacement to my local Prowler Tech for installation. Neal is concerned about the flow with the new Walbro replacement, has anyone had issues with a direct replacement on a stock engine? Third hand I heard something about a regulator that is internal with these pumps versus external on the stock setup. I thought this was as simple as swapping out only the pump, maybe I missed something?

I'd hate to drop the ~$600 for the factory fuel pump assembly, all opinions are welcome and appreciated!

Dave

catfish




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posted 07-07-2008 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for catfish     send a private message to catfish   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by catfish
whats a walbro.

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Howard


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posted 07-07-2008 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Howard     send a private message to Howard   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Howard
walbro
http://www.walbro.com/

This message has been edited by Howard on 07-07-2008 at 09:04 PM

catfish




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posted 07-07-2008 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for catfish     send a private message to catfish   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by catfish
the prowler pump puts out 29 lbs of pressure.the walbro site,is real vague on lbs of pressure.how is neal going to make a walbro pump work,its a totally different type of pump.if you need a prowler pump,let me know,i have one like new for 200.00 plus ship.new cat pumps are 470.00 list.

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SuperDave


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posted 07-07-2008 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SuperDave     send a private message to SuperDave   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by SuperDave
quote:
Originally posted by catfish:
how is neal going to make a walbro pump work,its a totally different type of pump.

Quite a few other Prowler owners have gone with the Walbro pump, explicit details on the replacement were posted by Butchee and Dan Pena a while back. You can find the details on the
Tech Journal page , the details are listed under the heading ""Walbro In-tank Fuel Pump Project.

Neal's questions are about a regulator, hopefully someone that has done the swap can chime in with the details if there are any to share. Based on what I read you simply swap out the pumps and everything else stays as it was, do I need to worry about a regulator?

toys


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posted 07-07-2008 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for toys     send a private message to toys   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by toys
I think walbro was bought out by Ti Automotive Group.

I attended the TI automotive auction when they closed their Meriden Conn Plant, and that is where walbro started out was before TI automotive bought them out.

TI Automotive Group was making the fuel pumps, gas tanks & fuel components for chrysler & other's

I ended up with some Good Prowler stuff from that Auction.

Walbro made lots of carbs & rebuild kits for small engines also.

toys

This message has been edited by toys on 07-08-2008 at 01:12 AM

quincy



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posted 07-08-2008 07:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quincy     send a private message to quincy   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by quincy
Well I tried Kraut's five second rule. (key on for 5 seconds prior to engaging the starter when engine is hot)
It really did not help the hard start issue much. Still took three tries, but I will admit the car started a bit better on the third try. The saga continues............
SuperDave


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posted 07-08-2008 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SuperDave     send a private message to SuperDave   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by SuperDave
quote:
Originally posted by quincy:
Well I tried Kraut's five second rule. (key on for 5 seconds prior to engaging the starter when engine is hot)
It really did not help the hard start issue much. Still took three tries, but I will admit the car started a bit better on the third try. The saga continues............

Quincy: Try turning the key on for five seconds, turn it back to off, turn it on for another five seconds, back to off and then on for another five seconds before starting it next time, that might help. The pump only runs for a few seconds to get the pressure up on the rail, that might help load it up for you...

Does anyone with the Walbro replacement have any comments about the regulator?

ed monahan





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posted 07-08-2008 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     send a private message to ed monahan   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by ed monahan
Here's a link http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001794-3.html

Sounds like it is fairly simple to switch.

idive


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posted 07-09-2008 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for idive     send a private message to idive   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by idive
Dave - I sent you a PM the other day. Let me know if you didn't get it. Otherwise, I'm a patient man.
mojoriser

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posted 07-14-2008 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mojoriser     send a private message to mojoriser   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by mojoriser
My '97 has started doing something similar. When it's cold, it starts right up. When it's hot, it starts right up. The only time I have to really crank it is when it's hot and it's been sitting for a little while. 19k miles and counting.

Superdave, let me know when your pump issue gets resolved, I may be heading down the same path and visiting Neal soon.

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Prowler #86

ed monahan





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posted 07-20-2008 01:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     send a private message to ed monahan   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by ed monahan
At VA Beach Quincy says that Super Dave's tip has worked EVERY time so far.
onecatnodog
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posted 07-22-2008 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for onecatnodog     send a private message to onecatnodog   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by onecatnodog
I installed a aviation fuel filter check ball valve right at the back of the engine were the fuel line hooks onto the fuel rail.. The install was done Saturday and was tested over twenty times while up on Trail Ridge Road and all over with our cruise with hot starts last Sunday and then today with good results.. I feel that it is to early to tell and will report on this issue when it has been been in there for a month.. So far so good, but time will tell.. Please wait to do this as when messing with fuel there is always a danger... Here is a picture of were it goes (Labeled with a E on the tape with a bolt in the fuel line).. This is the old motor from the Prowler that is getting a Hemi in it and was used to just show you were I placed it.. onecatnodog

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