posted 11-05-2004 08:11 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by RBADKAT:
they recommend that you jack up both side at same time.

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Who is "they" - not the Factory Shop Manual.

I use a floor jack to jack one front pads until both front wheels are well off the ground. I then lower the car onto jackstands placed at the two identified points of the "V" beams under the car.

This sound like a good time of the year, before the holidays, to repeat what I've said many times before:

SPEND THE 90 BUCKS ON A SHOP MANUAL TO SUPPORT A $45,000 CAR!

JMHO

-GRROWL

posted 11-05-2004 02:55 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronald Heintschel:
Can Anyone tell me if it would be ok to jack up the car and put it on jack stands on the cross beam just under the engine

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Floor jack - any of the 4 pads on frame

Twin-post swing-arm - same as above (2 pairs of pads) plus an additional location (2 points) that I mentioned along the "V"-beams. I will describe this further below.

It does NOT show the cross-beam or welded plate under the engine as a jack point. I would interpret this to mean that the answer to your specific question is "NO".

Since the 4 pads are shown for "floor jack", there is no warning against jacking at a single pad.

The additional location for the twin-post jack is another story since it is not specified for "floor jack". As such, you need to lift at both points simultaneously to be consistent with the manual. If you look under the car, there is the welded rectangular plate directly under the engine. There are two beams that are welded to the front of this plate and head toward the wheels at an angle, what I am calling the "V"-beams. The pair of jacking points for the twin-post jack are approximately 1/3 of the way from the plate (or, 2/3 of the way back from the wheels).

So, WHAT WORKS FOR ME (and I believe is 100% consistent with the manual) is to use a floorjack on one of the front pads, lift to the maximum height of the jack, and lower onto a PAIR of jackstands under the "V"-beams where I indicated.

It would also be consistent with the manual to put a bar across the "V" and lift in its center with a floorjack - basically, you've created a twin-post lift. I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT ONE WOULD HAVE TO BE OUT OF ONE'S EVER-LOVING MIND TO USE A WOOD 2X4 AS THIS CROSSBEAM. JM(not so)HO

If you go to "The Garage" section on the home page, it shows 2 pages from the Shop Manual for towing. I have suggested in the past that someone add the previous half-page, which is exactly what I'm trying to describe.

Oh, H$#%, maybe I'll try to scan it and include it in this thread, but I truly suggest that this be put in "The Garage" section before someone hurts their prowler (or worse).

-GRROWL

posted 11-05-2004 03:57 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by idive:
I would like to see a pic of what you are saying in your last post, but I don't think his question related to jack points as much as it had to do with the placement of stands when it is already jacked up. (Yea, I know the thread title is Jack Points, but re-read his question.) I don't really understand his question's purpose tho. I don't think you'll get the car any higher putting the stands under the engine than you will putting them in the proper locations at the specified jack points near the wheels on the outer frame.

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I'd love to see a picture on this board, too. I recommended that years ago. I believe the question is where to put jackstands. Under the engine, on the flat plate, NO (according to the manual). Forward of the flat plate, 1/3 of the way on the "V"-beams, YES - I do it all the time.

-GRROWL

posted 11-07-2004 07:25 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronald Heintschel:
GRROWL
Here are some pics of where i want to jack up and place stands

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In any case, my suggestion for the front is to lift on the pads, lower onto jackstands at positions "A" (#2 and #5) from the manual.

If you're talking about the rear, however, that's another story since there's only one pair of jack points. What I was taught is NEVER TRUST A JACK. When I installed a Mopar/Borla exhaust, I wanted to use jackstands, but there is only one pair of lift pads. What I did was put a floorjack under each rear pad, lift both sides, and lowered two solid frame/suspension areas onto the jackstands TO STABILIZE. I left the floorjacks in place holding most of the weight, but lowered just enough so that the stands wouldn't move. I figured, if a floorjack failed and if the selected points weren't strong enough, at least I would have enough warning to get out from under in time. You might want to use this same theory in the front if the two pair of "official" jack points aren't sufficient.

BTW, Sears had a sale on a floorjack with jackstands last Spring. From memory, I'm pretty sure it was a 2-1/4 ton floorjack with a pair of 4,000 pound jackstands for $30 bucks total. I do find it convenient to have that second floorjack. (FWIW, it seems "standard practice" is to rate floorjacks singly (makes sense), but jackstands are rated per pair, and the standard "WalMart" 12,000 pound ramps are rated for total vehicle weight. SOOooo, that works out to 2,500 for the floorjack, but 2,000 pounds per jackstand and 3,000 per ramp. Not a factor for the Prowler, but it seemed interesting.)

-GRROWL

posted 11-09-2004 12:28 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by GRROWL:
As a coincidence, I just received this newsletter from Valvoline: http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20041001js
""""""""""""
Jacking and jack stand support points are also extremely crucial. A jack or jack stand in the wrong location can cause vehicle or bodily damage. Your owner's manual is a good place to find safe jacking locations for your vehicle. Never jack up a vehicle from a point not designed to handle the load. If unsure about where to place a jack or jack stand, the best strategy is to stop. Do not attempt to guess at a good location. You can easily put holes in your floorboards or worse—yourself!
"""""""""""

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Grrowl,
Stop and think about your information source.
That information is for a unibody car, not a tempered aluminum frame style lightweight car. It's also provided to you by a company trying to convince you to have them change your oil because it's unsafe to do it yourself.

posted 11-09-2004 03:27 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Lord:
Grrowl,
Stop and think about your information source. . . .

By using a short piece of wood to prevent frame marring, jacking up the car from just about any position should be no problem.

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We mostly agree. I mentioned the article only because it seemed amusing that it arrived during this discussion.

I also like your suggestion (in other posts) of a 2x4 along the frame and lifing a whole side at a time with floorjacks. Yes, spreading the load is the key - and I still don't like the idea of less than a square-inch of contact at the top of the bottle jack (needs to spread out) or the position in the picture (not below the frame). I agree, and do use a wood pad on a floorjack to spread the load, as you suggest, but I would STRONGLY suggest a piece of plate steel over the bottle jack - yes, I've had experience with a 2x4 piece of wood splitting when used over a bottle jack - not pretty.

All in all, we're in agreement otherwise. I don't believe Ron has the clearance he needs to put a bottlejack between the lift ramps and the prowler frame if he includes a 2x4 (and a small steel plate so that the bottlejack doesn't punch through the wood).

He does, however, have me intrigued about buying one of those lifts - do you have experience with them?

-GRROWL

posted 11-09-2004 05:36 PM                  

If anyone wants to talk to me about the lift feel free to call me . My home phone # is 419-865-4229
Call anytime I live in Ohio
Thanks for all the help
Ron