posted 08-22-2004 08:50 PM                  

brake fluid:
PT - light tan (half-quart)
GRROWL - dark tan (half-quart)
Windstar - dark gray (actually, clear with black particles, full quart)

trans fluid:
PT - bright red, looked like new (3-1/2 quarts ATF+4)
GRROWL - dark red, plenty of life left (4 quarts ATF+4)

PS fluid:
PT - light gray
GRROWL - medium gray
Windstar - dark red (Type "F" trans fluid)

Some commented that the 10 quart fluid extractor seemed like overkill, but I consider it to be one of my better tool purchases:

$56.05 for 10 quart Mity Vac: http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MIT-7201.html

$18.03 for the Brake Bleeding Accessory Package: http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MIT-7205.html

Conclusions:
1. I didn't experience the black brake fluid that others have reported, but I will change GRROWL's brake fluid again in a year because it was darker than the PT's.
2. The PT Cruiser is a lot easier on fluids than the prowler, I'll probably only do brakes and trans every other year.
3. A smaller extractor would work if you just want to do brakes, but the larger unit pays for itself since it can do the tranny fluid without having to remove the tranny cover. It was a 10-minute job, also a lot cleaner.

posted 08-24-2004 05:08 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Black Tie 161:
Sooo...your brake fluid came out dark too, huh?

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-GRROWL

posted 08-25-2004 04:32 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by MDProwler:
GROWWL, Keep in mind that when you change the tranny fluid you are only getting some of the fluid. There is plenty more in the torque converter. The absolute best way is to have the filter changed and have the trans power flushed at a properly equiped trans shop.

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Oh, where to start. The approach that I'm using is the result of coming up with my own system based on lengthy discussions on another board. My analysis shows that it's faster/better/cheaper to do partial transmission fluid changes on a frequent basis rather than use the manufacturer's recommended intervals.

Here's some datapoints:

1. In normal service (for which GRROWL qualifies), there is no Chrysler service interval to EVER change the transmission fluid (or filter).

2. The above is supported by the language on the ATF+4 transmission fluid container from Chrysler, "Engineered to be a 'Fill for Life' Automatic Transmission Fluid under normal driving conditions."

3. To replace the filter involves using silicone sealant in the reassembly. Not something I want to do on a routine basis.

4. Since it is so simple to disconnect the trans cooler lines, it would be very easy to come up with a procedure to "power-flush" using the transmission pump itself. I have used this method on other cars, don't need it here.

5. The specifications show the transmission capacity as less than 8 quarts. It only took 5-10 minutes to suck out and replace 4 quarts, or more than half.

Let's make an assumption that, contrary to Chrysler statements, that the ATF+4 super-fluid is only good for 100,000 miles (as is the case for the "severe" maintenance schedule) - mathematically, let's assume it's 100% worn out at 100,000 miles. So, over the first 10 years of the car's life (assuming 10,000 miles/year), the fluid will be, on the average, 50% worn out. Much worse, for the last year of the 10-year cycle, you will be running at least 90% (to 100%) totally worn out fluid.

If you run 10,000 miles per year and start my system after one year, you will replace half the fluid at the 10%-worn point for an average of 95% new over the year. Without running the math, you will be benefitting from 36 quarts of new fluid over the first 10 years vs. zero.

(Running the math, you will have a worst-case situation of 80% new fluid with an average over the 10 years of 90% new).

Bottom line - this system is OVERLY AGGESSIVE and infinitely exceeds the "normal" service recommendations. Even comparing to the "severe" interval, this exceeds it by at least 1,000% - AND IT'S EASIER!!! From a practical perspective, I'll probably do this again in 2 years - if the fluid looks no worse than it did the first time, I know I found the perfect interval.

-GRROWL

P.S. - BTW, "powerflushing" doesn't replace all of the fluid either. The engine would need to be running and the transmission shifted through all gears in order to flush out the individual circuits - the logistics and synchronization to do this on a power-flush unit would be impossible.

P.P.S. - the suction method I used is an acceptable method and documented in the service manual by Chrysler.

posted 08-25-2004 04:38 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by psynk:
Can't ya just use a turkey baster and some surgical tubing on the brakes, suck out the old fluid from the master cylinder (no joke here, I got chewed out once by this site!), and use the tubing to direct the fluid from the bleeder screws into some container? Seems like a lot of money just to suck out some fluid!

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-GRROWL

posted 08-26-2004 07:07 AM                  

psync: I think a turkey baster would work well...just sucking up some fluid, that's all. If it can pull up water, it can pull up brake fluid.....Just remember to not put it back in the kitchen drawer later...LOL.

Even though I flushed my brakes the cheapo way, I did buy a mini vac thing to suck the dirty fluid out of the resoirvoir. The reason was I would be sucking less dirty fluid thru the lines if I replaced the master cylinder with fresh fluid....shortening the length of the process. The only bother I had was the partition in the cylinder between the fronts and backs....harder to fill and drain the back partition..meaning you can flush the fluid and the front of the master cylinder is clean and the back part can still be dirty fluid....almost like draining two separate resoirvoirs.

posted 03-16-2006 09:00 AM                  

Does the MityVac come with adapters for all 4 wheels or do you bleed each wheel separately?

posted 03-16-2006 03:28 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by spoons:
Grrowl,

Does the MityVac come with adapters for all 4 wheels or do you bleed each wheel separately?

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I actually bought the extractor for the main purpose of changing tranny fluid in the 2 Chryslers, and the brakes are a bonus - it works well for both, but the setup that I bought required the brake adapter as a separate purchase.