posted 09-21-2002 07:51 PM                  

Does anyone know the status of PPC / POA. I know there was some discussions quite a while back. There is zero happening on the PPC site. I'm sure a takeover / merger could be done. (there are a few ex-investment bankers at Merrill and Solomon who need work).

posted 09-21-2002 10:40 PM                  

I have thought about taking my car to local shows, but was not sure how a newer car would be received by the others. I have never been to any local shows but have always liked cars and notice them as I pass by. Being a novice in auto knowledge I don't think I could build or restore the older muscle cars. I owned a road runner in High school and would like to get one like the car I had but skill level is not high in auto knowledge.

This lack of auto knowledge is mostly likely why I have not gone to a local show in addition I need to have notice in order to be able to set aside the time. I notice that very few cars are listed for the Fort Wayne area and I have only talked to one other owner locally and he was much more interested in the corvette club and events he follows.

I have been considering trying to get a group of owners together for participation in the local Three Rivers Parade- It is the one of the largest parades in Indiana and has upto 100,000 plus in attendance. The 2003 parade is the same year the Vette club is doing the 50 Year tribute and they are planning a large showing at the parade. Also every year the corsair club is entered as is the Mercedes Club, The Mustang Club, the Vette Club and a local hot road group and the Honda Gold wings, Harley Club. I would like to see 10-12 Prowlers which would be more than the Vette club had this year. The Parade is well over 4 hours long and is in the Month of July after the 4th. I am going to contact the Three Rivers Committee and find out what is required but they need about 4 months prior application for the parade.

I did go to the Bristol, In Parade and was there with 3 other cars, had a great time and want to Thank Steve for the opportunity to be involved.

I am planning to try an get to more events but lack of local on close to Indiana events or maybe lack of of my ability to find out about the events is a problem.

In regards to interest and number of posts, I feel time and fear of appearing to lack knowledge may be reason.

posted 09-22-2002 09:09 AM                  

Don’t necessary want to turn this thread in a different direction but I did want to comment.

Sounds like our technical car expertise and ownership timeframe are fairly close (got mine in May). I went to my first car show this weekend. I got one of the special awards for my effort (Police chief’s pick – not sure that was so good though) and it was the first show I’ve ever been too. I picked one close to home so I could get the family involved as well. This was the only reason I didn’t make it to Ohio this weekend to join up with some of the folks I met at the Louisville event earlier in the summer which is the only POA even I’ve made.

You don’t have to participate in car shows to enjoy your cat. But if it's something your interested in, just go out and get you feet wet. Don’t worry about someone pointing you out because you do something wrong. You’ll find the vast majority of people don’t care about anything but your car, not that you’re a rookie. And you’ll find that here as well. The folks on this board will only add to your ownership experience.

posted 09-22-2002 11:27 AM                    

I don't think it has to do with age, money, speed, or anything other then the numbers. I honestly think it is as simple as the numbers.

The viper has been around since what, 94? And I know they are probably making more then 2K of them a year. I thought I read somewhere (perhaps a year or two ago) that they had built about 75K by then. I stand to be corrected but, even if the number is half of that, that is still 3 times more then the prowler.

I'll bet if you look at the total number built versus those in the viper club, it is probably fairly close to the same percentage for the prowlers.

------------------
Trey
"Who are you calling chicken? I said I'm YELLOW"

posted 09-22-2002 09:48 PM                  

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Bill Gallagher
1999 Red
www.MagicTouchDesigns.com

• MTD Prowler Intake System 2.2
• MTD Bypass Kit
• MTD Suspension Frame Braces
• Other Modifications

posted 09-22-2002 10:10 PM                  

I'd like to start by saying that there is no question that Prowler has not been treated as equally as the Viper. Chrysler (now DC) made a very large commitment to the Viper and its owners. Viper was produced to jump-start the Dodge brand. It did, overwhelmingly, but it took a very large commitment from the corporation. The Viper Club and its owners have benefited greatly from DC. When the decision was made to produce Prowler, it too, was born to help jump-start the Plymouth brand. Unfortunately, not even an outstanding vehicle like the Prowler could save Plymouth. Prowler was always planned to only be a 5 year life. Chrysler (DC) decided that they were not going to spend the enormous amounts of money on the Prowler and its owners due to the short life projection.

However, Chrysler (DC) has not totally ignored us. Of course, it wasn't and won't be as much as we would have liked. Some examples:

1. Tours at the plant (including at least one luncheon that I am aware of) and providing personnel for tech talks.
2. Providing merchandise at the plant store (and continuing to do so even after production has ended).
3. Allowing Jerry Scholten, Prowler Engineer, to attend our events for the purpose of "tech talks" and goodwill.
4. A constant and consistent flow of timely and accurate information during the production life of the Prowler.
5. Whether you actually knew it or not, the thread I posted a long time ago about choice of colors was submitted to DC for consideration and from that came "Candy Red".
6. Allowing us to have the "CAAP Tribute" day and even providing lunch for us.
7. We received DCTV coverage at one of the Woodward Dream Cruise events and at the CAAP Tribute event.
8. The club and its activities has been mentioned several times in the "Chrysler (now DaimlerChrysler) Times" which is distributed to all DC's facilities for the employees.
9. The Black Tee Parties in conjunction with the Woodward Dream Cruise.
10. They have given me t-shirts, cds, brochures, posters, etc. for distribution to the Prowler owners.
11. They made copies (50+) of the Dream Cruise DCTV coverage and gave them to me to distribute to Prowler owners - FREE!
12. They renewed their stock of Prowler accessories.
13. Provided another 200 Prowler trailers for sale.

The specific DC personnel involved with the Prowler have done the best they could to support us with the limited resources that they were allowed. I thank them for that.

Viper vs. Prowler..........The Viper and Prowler are two totally different vehicles with different types of owners. I believe the statement that the Viper owners are basically in it for the speed, is true. One of our Prowler members that owns a Viper also, has stated to me several times that he, by far, enjoys the Prowler group over the Viper group (as all they want to do is race their car). I think it is not fair to compare the two groups.

Re.........negativity on the board. With regard to the two separate clubs........it is FAR past the time to keep bringing up the old "issues". The past is past.....what's done is done..........we need to continue moving forward, whether it is as two clubs or one. With regard to personal attacks...........we need to keep focused on why we are here in the first place. However, this group is made up people with very diverse backgrounds. Not everyone is going to like everyone........that's human nature..........but we should always try to keep our feelings to ourselves and at the very least, be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of how we feel about them. If someone has a "problem" with another member, it can be discussed off the board.

Re: cliques.........I would hate to think that people feel there are cliques, but I'm sure that at times it seems like it. I don't feel like there are "cliques" per se, but rather groups of people who know each other well from attending the events. Owners who can get together locally know each other well. Owners who are able to regularly attend the larger "national" events have also become good friends and the only time we see a lot of these people are at these events. Perhaps we spend a little too much time catching up with "old" friends and not enough time cultivating the "new " friends. I am sure I've been guilty of it myself (although not intentionally) and I personally, will make a commitment to make sure that I "include" everyone!!! It is up to the "old" members to make sure the "new" members feel welcome!

A/C...........your comment about the Michigan owners and lack of activities. I totally agree with you and it has been my biggest source of frustration. The owners I know here always say that they want to get together, etc., but no one is stepping up to organize anything (other than the Dream Cruise events). I can't do everything.........but I will try to take another step up and work harder at getting people in Michigan together more. We also have to remember that the car and this site is not the only thing in our lives...........yes........in spite of what everyone thinks.........I, too, have another life!!! I have a husband, sons, grandsons and other extended family to tend to, also. None of us (except maybe A/C and fixumm) can spend our entire life on this board.....

Which brings me to my own comments. I've been involved with the Prowler on different levels since 1995. I started with the PPC even before I had my car. I love my cars and the pleasure and the friendships they have brought me cannot be put into words. I feel that for as long as I have been involved with this car, with these clubs and this website, I have tried to support it in every way I possibly could. I am not perfect......far from it. I've made mistakes, hopefully will not make too many more, but I will continue to support the Prowler, the owners and this website until I have no more to give.

It's been great to see a lot of the new owners posting, planning local and national events and I hope they will continue to do so. It is critical that the "old" members continue their support of this site and the other owners. I hope more new owners will jump in and experience all that we have to offer. It doesn't matter if you are a "rookie" or an "old-timer"..........we are ALL needed if we are going to continue the success of this group and this site. As I've said before...........we are the only ones who can and will keep the Prowler spirit alive!

posted 09-23-2002 11:39 AM                  

Plymouth Prowler: 8,024
Chrysler Prowler: 2,973
Total Prowler: 10,997

1st generation Viper: 14,828

As of this morning:

posted 09-23-2002 12:59 PM                  

Ways to move forward...

Promotion... The site has to be promoted. I HATE bumper stickers but I have the prowleronline banner on my windshield and am going to keep it there. I think every owner should have one too. Not only would it be a good way to recognize someone that belongs to the site but if you are driving and happen upon another kat, they will see the banner and hopefully check out the site.

I too have the plate frames on both of my trucks (durango and dakota) and the kat. You wouldn't believe the number of people that have walked up to me while with the durango and said... we have a prowler too! I say yea..?? what color? They look at me strange and say white. They are talking about the prowler camping trailer, not the car. This is why I have not put the windshield banners on either of my trucks.

QUESTION FOR BOB... Would DC relinquish the rights to the prowler logo if it were not being used for profit? I mean, could we make window stickers using that logo with the prowleronline.com name so people wouldn't confuse it with the trailer? If they are not going to sell the prowler anymore, and they have no interest in promoting it, would they let us promote it by using that unique logo?

Clicks, Cliques, Cliks... whatever. I have not seen this at our events. I have not been able to attend a national event but the ones I have been too locally, I have not noticed. It does take some initiative to somewhat outgoing with prowler owners. I have noticed that once you introduce yourself, most of them warm right up. I for one AM NOT OUTGOING! LOL - some of you may not believe that. But once I meet someone (even if it is online), I feel more comfortable saying "HI" than if I don't know who they are.

I think Bob has a great point with Screen Names and Real Names. There are many at events that I know by name but not their screen name, and vice versa. It can be confusing and maybe they should be added to our event name tags.

Bashing... I don't think bashing is acceptable. And I don't think most people here do either. There have been instances where something has had to be pointed out and someone else didn't care for it and took offense. Yes, I agree that we need to temper some of our postings but I really appreciate the honesty and openness that is here. I think that maybe, some people need take some things in stride and some people need some tact (I will be the first to admit that I have no tact and need to learn some). Bashing, is not acceptable but I don't think we need to put all controversial postings in the bashing category. There is no reason to put people down. I do think there are times to point out certain things regarding products or such, but not people.

There are some also that think we bash others when it is really in fun (re: BatCliff vs. SuperDan, SuperDan vs. anyone, Everyone vs. AC, fixumms typing, etc.) and not out to hurt feelings. I think if someone feels that it is becoming too much, they should post such, and I know it would stop.

Events... I am one of those that have limited VC time and a family that can not all fit in the kat. So, I may not be able to make big events but I make what I can and enjoy it every time. I REALLY APPRECIATE, the hand of friendship that is put out there. We may not have super large gatherings (like the viper club) but I bet it is more intimate (friendly, AC... not the other ). We may be a smaller community, but there is always someone there to help when you need it!

Membership and Posting... I don't think it takes a lot of postings to be considered a good ambassador of the site. Most people may think Jim Stallings and I are at odds with each other but he and Cathy were the first ones to welcome us personally. We met at a local restaurant and made me feel welcome. It is because of members like him that make this site successful. Sure, he may not post often but he is a good ambassador. CJ is another GREAT ambassador. She works tirelessly to help people! Mike and Judy and the Prowleronline crew, work so hard to make sure this site is the best, I just can't imagine the resources necessary. If each of us can use these members as examples and be there for others when needed, I think the site will grow and be more prosperous by itself.

These are just some thoughts... I really didn't intend to sit down and write this much, but once I started... geesh

------------------
Cliff Watson See My Prowler Page
2K1 Mulholland, Colorshift Flames, Mud Flaps, TGF Side Panels, TGF Bumper Covers, Eric Wolf Chrome Tranny Cooler, Blueberry Shimmers, Front Ceramic Pads, Homemade Top Brace, SSS Muffler, Weekender.
2001 Dakota SLT+ CC (Patriot Blue)
1998 Durango SLT+ (Intense Blue)
X - 1998 Honda Accord
X - 1991 Dodge Spirit
X - 1965 Ford Mustang (289)
X - 1994 Dodge Daytona Turbo
X - 1971 Ford Pinto (The Rust Bucket)

posted 09-23-2002 07:48 PM                  

they have 'merchandise' at the Plant ???

posted 09-23-2002 09:25 PM                  

quote:

---

CJ ?????????
they have 'merchandise' at the Plant ???

why didnt you tell us ?

---

Uhhhhhhhhhh............because:

1. I wanted everything for myself........
2. Because I didn't want anyone to think that I would go shopping for them............
3. I didn't want to be accused of pressuring anyone into buying the Prowler merchandise...........
4. I didn't want to be accused of spending other owner's money............
5. I didn't want the Post Office to think I was running some kind of illegal business...........
6. I didn't want to make any more runs to the Post Office..
7. I didn't want anyone to think all I do is shop.......
8. The people at the plant were tired of seeing me there...

posted 09-24-2002 06:20 AM                  

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posted 09-24-2002 07:36 AM                  

I put our logo at the top and a large "Attention" line. Then I listed some of the major events we have held over the last couple of years. Next, was a list of some of the upcoming events on our schedule.

Next, I did a brief overview of the Prowler Owners Association and the website, listing some of the things it had to offer, ending with an invitation to log on to Prowleronline.com. I attach one of my POA/Prowleronline.com cards so they can reach me by email or phone.

I carry them in an envelope in the back pocket of the passenger seat. I should start carrying some in my PT, also. Whenever I see another Prowler (either with the occupants or if it's parked) I try to talk to them and give them one or at least I leave a flyer on the windshield or on the seat. I chased down a bunch of them at Dream Cruise this year and some of those people have actually registered on the site! Talking to Prowler owners is always fun, but it is also helpful to leave a hard copy of information. It's a way to reach people, anyway!!

posted 09-25-2002 12:07 AM                  

Prowler :
Average age of owner : 45
Men to women owner ratio : 95/5
Percent of owners married : 65%
Average Annual Income : $107,000

Viper
Average age of owner : 54
Men to women owner ratio : 94/6
Percent of owners married : 57%
Average Annual Income : $115,000

These numbers are like from 2000. So I don’t know how accurate they are but even with the limited amount of data they had at that time, typically comparisons between the two sets of owners don’t change that much over time. But if these numbers are correct, there isn’t that much difference between average incomes (~7%) and Viper owners are older on average. So that kind of throws a curve ball at some of this discussion.

Of course the cross section we have here could be way off from the average numbers. Perhaps it would be beneficial to have a poll on income. Not to make anyone uncomfortable, but to better understand the membership and what events fit best. I also looked back through the archives and found an old age demographic pool (in Feb). I would think we would want this again at least every 12 months if not every six months to also leverage this information going forward.

posted 09-25-2002 07:09 AM                  

We also need to keep in mind several other things:

1. All of us do have normal lives which includes a lot of other obligations than being on this site all the time and being able to attend every event that comes up.

2. Many of you have children at home. Let's face it. The Prowler is not a family vehicle. Many people have found ways to bring their families along, for others, it may be a bit more difficult.

3. Those with school age children who are involved with other activities (sports, etc.) have obligations to their children which, obviously, should come first. Even though my sons are grown and gone, I do have grandsons. One of them plays hockey on the weekends. I try to make as many of his games as possible.......it's important to him (and me).

4. Some people work weekends.

5. Many people have limited vacation time to use for the longer distance events.

posted 09-25-2002 08:17 AM                  

1) Some Prowler owners just don't think to do a search for a community site. They just buy the car for fun.

2) Others are too paranoid to have their personal info posted on this site when registering, so they just lurk.