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 Heard two rumors this morning (Page 2)
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| Author | Topic: Heard two rumors this morning |
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NightProwler Prowler Junkie From:Chicago |
posted 01-31-2001 05:03 PM
    
Trey, you DESERVE to get at least $70MM because you put your own assets and personal guarantee on the line. You took the risk and you DESERVE the rewards. Eaton didn't take such personal risks - heck, career risk was all that was at stake for him. Eaton didn't do anything to turn the auto industry upside down like Crandle did for the benefit of the aviation industry ie. first to create frequent flyer miles, hub and spoke system, optimize rpm's and apm's, etc. which are now common place for the aviation industry. Crandle, a premier innovator and value creator, and Eaton shouldn't be used in the same sentence - except to describe an antonym. I used to be an analyst at Merrill Lynch. I've heard all the arguments for and against huge executive payouts. I could easily write a book on this topic. My opinion is that huge payouts are justified if the execs generate above averge returns relative to whatever stock index benchmark is applicable (for publicly held companies). If the company's stock performance sucks relative to comparable indexes-then dont pay the execs BIG $ and that should be part of every public held corporations compensation plan- but you'll rarely see it because the big execs control that. Remember, the outside compensation consultants on the compensation commitee are hired by the big executives to whom the report will be given. CJ, employee loyalty and business have no relationship to each other whatsoever and I know you know that. When the ship is sinking in business, every person fends for themself. The captain of a business does not go down with the ship. They jump on the life boat and hit the throttle hoping the prop doesn't wipe out too many sailors. ------------------ |
HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 01-31-2001 05:17 PM
quote: ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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Lance.d Prowler Junkie From:Tulsa, OK |
posted 01-31-2001 05:47 PM
My use of Crandle is purely just saying that when a exec leaves he usually sells his stock that he has gained throughout the years. And just thought I would throw a little twist that he started a airline with his proceeds (under his wifes name) and sold it to AA . My father is a exec with AA and they still hold Crandle in god like status and hoped for his return. Also in regards to eaton , there is a ton of dealers that wish that eaton was back . With his leaving so did a bunch of his exec right behind him. Eaton did great things for the industry, CATIA computer system . This in one reason that our cars cost more . We are in the first 5 years of use of this and haven't given it time for the cost to balanced out over the years. Along with other overruns, so given time chrysler will be back. Look at the stock of AA when crandle left if fell to the ground and is now slowly ever slowly rebounding. ------------------ This message has been edited by Lance.d on 01-31-2001 at 05:52 PM |
CJ                    POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Rochester Hills, MI USA |
posted 01-31-2001 07:03 PM
Can you say Bob.......Lutz.....not Eaton who was at the helm of Viper/Prowler/PT. PT especially. Yes, Bob Eaton was the top guy, but who ran the company??? Other than fend off Kerkorian, what did Bob Eaton do to earn the 70 mil?? He was smart enough to let Lutz run the operations. The problems started brewing almost as soon as Lutz was moved from the day-to-day management even before he retired. And, of course, sold us to Daimler. Thanks and yes, NightProwler, I do understand about the loyalty. However, my point was that Eaton didn't earn that money. This message has been edited by CJ on 01-31-2001 at 07:04 PM |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-01-2001 07:40 AM
quote: Perhaps it's me but I detect a bit of jealousy about the 70M. He must have done something to "earn" it elsewise why didn't Chrysler award ALL employees 70M each? You say he was the top guy, well top guys recognize talent and delegate. Other the fend off Kerkorian? That is a BIG deal and I'm sure alot more people would have been looking for a job a long time ago if he hadn't fended off that one. Is anyone worth $70M? Subjective, I guess. I look a ball players making more then that and say that is rediculous. Others would disagree. Is someone who runs a company that employess tens of thousands of employees worth that? I would think so but,...... O.K., if no one will dispell the rumor about the demise of the Prowler when the parts bins are emptied will someone answer this one: How much does a parts bin hold (or is parts bin a figurative term)? I can't imagine a bin big enough to hold more then a few fenders or crate motors. Thanks, ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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NightProwler Prowler Junkie From:Chicago |
posted 02-01-2001 09:18 AM
Trey, as an analyst at Merrill Lynch I had the chance to interview many ceo's, presidents, etc at analysts meetings, during lunches et al. Here is the real life deal, not theory, based on actual experience-not something read in the newspaper, or common sense intuition, nor is it something I learned in grad school, from a friend who "knows someone" or as a Chartered Financial Analyst: board members watch each others back as well as the backsides of ceos and presidents. What comes around goes around. BTW, Trey you're right about ceos caring about profitiability to the nth degree but you did not highlight the exception to your statement: executives at income funds. Creating the Viper/Prowler is not comparable to the advent of frequent flier miles in terms of the magnitude on their respective industries. I love the Prowler and Viper but they are not industry changing revolutionary developments as was the frequent flier idea, hub and spoke system, or the mass production of cars by Henry Ford. CJ, the discussion on whether Eaton got too much is iterative. It is easy to make a case for and against the $70MM. However, look at the stock of CBI that was bought by Praxair. CBI's stock steadily declined by 50% from '95-'98 (compare that to the return on the NYSE, S&P, NASDAQ, Wilshire 5000, Russell index, the Lehman Bond Index, or a money market fund over the same time frame). CBI's stock was tendered by Praxair at a large premium over market. The CEO of CBI got a $13MM severance package plus the profit on his stock. Almost all the other employees got 3 weeks severance. CBI's ceo, who didn't originate the company, almost destroyed the company yet he got a nice package while the average employee lost their job with 3 weeks severance. CBI was not run well yet it had a cash cow of a subsidiary named Liquid Carbonic with no debt. The shareholders of CBI would have been better off by harvesting LC in a tax free spin off with a section 338 and the employees could have maintained their jobs. But the employees would have had to forego the 3 weeks severance....... I gotta figure out how to "bold" on here. lol ------------------ This message has been edited by NightProwler on 02-01-2001 at 09:29 AM |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-01-2001 09:33 AM
quote: I don't think the Prowler or Viper were meant to be revolutionary, although the Prowlers use of aluminum might be, I think they were built as "draws" to get more people excited about C/P/D and get them in the dealerships to buy cars (and not necessarily either of those two). Dad may gone in to look at the Black-Tie but, he leaves with a minivan for the little woman. From that standpoint, they have done their job nicely. ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-01-2001 09:34 AM
Geez, sell my Prowler and get a tee-shirt (looks like I might win this week). If I do win, send mine to Patrick.... ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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NightProwler Prowler Junkie From:Chicago |
posted 02-01-2001 09:42 AM
lol, did their job nicely?.... that should be determined EXCLUSIVELY by the performance of the stock price. Oh, but we have yet to see the long term effect of their "nice job." OK, lets give them 25 years. Or how about 50....  ------------------ This message has been edited by NightProwler on 02-01-2001 at 09:51 AM |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-01-2001 11:23 AM
quote: Not necessarily. Not everything is tied to stock price. Witness the PT, they are selling boatloads of them but they are still letting 26K people go. My latest company (started 12 months ago) is doing 8-figures worth of business a year yet we are still in the red. How can that be? Cars like the Prowler and the Viper are "DRAW" cars. They draw people into showrooms. DM even recognizes that and someone, there made the comment of "DM doesn't need two DRAW cars (refering to the Prowler and Viper)" which fueled rumors of Prowlers demise. Another way to look at it would be how many collateral sales would they have lost to competitors without them? ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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NightProwler Prowler Junkie From:Chicago |
posted 02-01-2001 12:57 PM
Yes, it is necessarily so. Read the first chapter of any finance 101 book or finance 801 book. Then speak to Jack Welch, Ross Perot, Crandle, Mort Meyerson, John Eulich etc. or any security analyst. 1+1=2. Everything is tied to stock price. Then you get into discussions about intrinsic value, long term price, stability, blah, blah blah, ROE X (1-dps/eps), etc, and what composes your ROE. ------------------ |
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Todd Bertrang unregistered Admin Use |
posted 02-01-2001 01:00 PM
ANY retail industry / store needs a draw. This is why stores have sales. This is why a car dealership will have dozens of the same models with different colors, and accessory’s. This is why the grocery store will simply have so much volume of many different items. The more variety you have, the more likely someone will come in and maybe, just maybe, BUY it. Both the Viper and Prowler are key draws in this “war” to get people into a place of business to purchase vehicles. Ever wonder why so many Prowler’s are still out there on the dealer floors? This is, in part, why they ask so much for them. Sometimes it is better to have something to show off then it is to sell it and not have that draw… but if someone pays me stupid money, then they can have it. This is typical of many businesses that have just such a rare draw “window” type item. The Eaton bit… I don’t know him, but I can tell you that the main thing any exec does is delegate authority to those around him that can get the job done. If they do this well, THEY have done their job. This is an extremely rare skill, being able to read people well in this regards, and it can reap it’s own rewards. ------------------ |
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NightProwler Prowler Junkie From:Chicago |
posted 02-01-2001 01:04 PM
WT Grant, in business for 100 years, had great draw. Too bad its stock price went to ZERO. Trey, don't confuse earnings(loss) with value/share price? I never would have bought SUNW, INTC or CSCO 4 years ago based on your logic. Would have cost me dearly. ------------------ This message has been edited by NightProwler on 02-01-2001 at 01:30 PM |
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CJ POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Rochester Hills, MI USA |
posted 02-01-2001 03:52 PM
Okay, Trey, here I go for one last time. It's been an interesting conversation, but this is the last I have to say about it. No, there is no jealousy about the 70M. I am a realist and everybody knows that you don't usually make that kind of money working for someone else. My husband is an executive at DC and makes a good living, but we will never have that kind of money. And that is okay. I don't need that kind of money. I have my Prowler, what more do I need? When Iacocca left, instead of appointing Bob Lutz who was next in line for the job, he gave it to Eaton instead. Eaton was not even with the company at the time. It was a personal slam to Lutz. When Lutz retired and his "dream team" left with him, that is when the downfall started. Costs were getting out of control, etc. and Eaton did not have the know-how or the people to delegate it to that could keep it under control. If he was that smart and had the people to delegate to, I guess we wouldn't be in the present situation. Be that as it may. With regard to Kerkorian, considering the present situation with the Germans, perhaps we may have been better off to have had Kerkorian take over the company than to sell to the Germans??? We will never know, now. But now the Germans, along with all of us who work for DC, have to fix it. And unfortunately, some will have to pay dearly for it, by losing their job because of a situation the "top guys" created, not them. It will come back....not overnight...but it will. We've been here before and we will be back again. I agree, I think that sports figures make far more money than they should. I'm not so sure that someone who is in charge of a large corp. should (he might be the top guy, but that doesn't mean he runs the whole thing). So, again, it is all a matter of personal opinion. I agree with NightProwler. If you start a company and put all of your assests and life and guarantees into it, then you do deserve to make that kind of money and more power to you. However, Eaton didn't. With regard to the rumor of the Prowler demise and the parts bins......that is proprietary information and cannot be discussed even if we wanted to. Sorry.....like I said rumor and speculation are just that until it either happens or doesn't happen. The Viper was revolutionary in design and motor and it's purpose was to help revive Dodge and it's image. And it certainly has accomplished that. Prowler was also revolutionary not only in the use of aluminum, but was an exercise in building a car using existing components from other products. That, along with it's radical design resulted in a product that, obviously, we love!!! It, too, was to try to help bring more credibility to the Plymouth line. And before you ask, I don't know the reasoning behind ending the Plymouth line. So, in closing, if you win the t-shirt, just remember I helped you!!! LOL!!! Thanks for the interesting discussion on this issue, Trey! This message has been edited by CJ on 02-01-2001 at 03:56 PM |
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steven Prowler Enthusiast From:MS |
posted 02-02-2001 01:11 AM
Have heard that DC is now putting Chrysler up for sell and that Toyota is looking at buying them now. (CNN FN) ------------------ |
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CJ POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Rochester Hills, MI USA |
posted 02-02-2001 06:27 AM
Just rumor and speculation by the media. Here in Detroit, Dieter Zetsche was interviewed by all local TV stations. No and no! Everyone remember that during a situation like this, the general public and the media start rumors and speculation that always get blown out of proportion. |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-02-2001 07:47 AM
quote: O.K., I draw the line at a Toyota Prowler or a Lexus Viper. ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-02-2001 07:51 AM
quote: I also remember all the oil companies I worked for and the CEO of the oil company acquiring ours saying, "There will be no layoffs" to the media, just before the layoffs. I call it "Don't spook the herd" mentality. I don't know if they are going to sell Chrysler but, even if they are, they would say they aren't.... ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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CJ POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Rochester Hills, MI USA |
posted 02-02-2001 08:18 AM
Don't believe everything you hear, Steven!! |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-02-2001 10:12 AM
quote: Does that include your statement or are you excluded from the mix? [just kiddin'] ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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Lance.d Prowler Junkie From:Tulsa, OK |
posted 02-02-2001 10:22 AM
man oh man did anyone watch the commerce committe on c span yesterday with aa buyout of twa. very interesting. Don Carty was sharp but not nearly as sharp as crandle. maybe he will get half as much when he leaves AA ...lol ------------------ |
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CJ POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Rochester Hills, MI USA |
posted 02-02-2001 11:55 AM
Trey.............I meant the media..... Of course, you don't have to believe me either!!! |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-02-2001 03:05 PM
quote: I trust in God, all others pay cash.... Say, did you hear the one about the agnostic, insomniac, dyslexic guy? He stayed up all night arguing if there was a DOG. ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
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HiHoSilver Prowler Junkie From:U.S. of A. |
posted 02-02-2001 03:06 PM
quote: NO! [gratuitous post to ensure Patrick gets a T-Shirt....] ------------------ Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet |
WildCat POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:North Louisville, Indiana, USA |
posted 02-02-2001 03:31 PM
In reading todays paper, it seems that things are not as bad as it has been reported for the automakers. I do believe all of the BIG 3 are alittle slow. But it showed Chrysler down 16%. That does not seem so bad when you concider the RECORD years that all the auto makers have experienced. Having worked for Chrysler in the `70's and lost my job due to layoff, now working for company just spun off from FORD, and working for the Japanese in between in a management roll, I can see the writing on the wall for all the big three. THE EMPLOYEE'S FROM MANAGEMENT TO FLOOR SWEEPERS HAVE TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO CONTINUE TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE COMPANY No matter what your personal opinion is it cannot be fixed here on the board. I hate to see what is happening. The people in management want to blame LABOR, Labor wants to blame MANAGEMENT BUT KNOW ONE WANTS TO SAY, WE CAN FIX THIS IF WE WORK TOGETHER EVERYONE WANTS ONE BIG THING, A SUPER FIX ALL. They need to learn it is all the little things that FIX the problem. Once EVERYONE starts to fix the little things The big things disappear. I didn't like the fact Iaccoca got so many MILLIONS when I was OUT OF A JOB. But was he so bad for the company. I do have a `81 Imperial that he wanted built that turned out to be a real turd in the market. But the box on wheels K car and the mini van got the company out of red ink. If it had not been turned around in the early `80's would we have the PROWLER to drive now? I would like to see an end to this thread. CJ, works very hard for the POA to provide us with some special info that we could not get anywhere else. I appreciate all she does for us. To continue this thread I feel is making attacks that does not need to exist. IN MY OPINION THE MEDIA HAS AS MUCH TO DO WITH THIS THREAD AS THE BUYOUT OF THE COMPANY HOW DO THEY SELL PAPERS OR GET PEOPLE TO WATCH TV, STIR UP THE DIRT My Two Cents ------------------ |
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