posted 10-16-2007 08:10 PM                  

What you need: A pair of scissors or utility knife for cutting. One roll of strapping tape and preferably 2 people. Make sure you use a better brand that has more strands in the tape. You can use 1/2" or up to 3/4", your choice. There is one of these types of tape that have strands running the length and there is one that has a cross hatch appearance. I would use the later if you can find it.

1. Clean the tubing and the metal thoroughly so that the tape sticks well.

2. Once dry, line up the break and make sure the 2 ends are parallel to each other. Next, pull the break together and let the other person pull off a piece of tape that will reach from just right of the center and then around the end metal piece (see the picture where the tape runs around the end piece) and back. Place the tape flat down the tubing and then around the end and back. Make sure to pull it tight because this is the first piece that will hold the break together. Once it is on, you can form the tape around the tubing that is wider than the tubing in spots.

3. Now that you have the first run of tape on the tubing, you now have to wrap the tape around the tubing like you were taking a bundle of wires and electrical taping it together. Start at the middle of the regulator where the motor goes on. Make sure to wrap it as tight as you can, spiraling to the end and then around the end and then back to the motor input housing. This puts the second loop around the end to help keep it from separating.

4. Another straight taping down the tubing and around the end folding the excess around the tubing.

5. The last spiraling starts at the middle again and then spirals down the tubing as tight as possible and then around the end and finally ending again at the middle.

The end result is 4 different tapings that together make the break almost impossible to pull apart. The covering of the metal on the end is of no concern as nothing there gets connected or gets in the way.

With one hand on the middle and the other holding the end, I took the regulator in the pictures and tried to pull harder than the motor would and could only budge the break by less than 1/16" if that. When you have the process finished, try that also and you will see what I mean. The motor will not put that much torque on the tubing in my opinion. To see the torque applied to the tubing (regulator) with the interior door panel off, look down the window gap and move the window up and down with the glass in. You will see that the down stroke puts more torque than the upstroke.

If you have not pulled the tape as tight as you can when taping it, it may give a bit more than you want. If so, just tape it again using a tighter pull.

If your break is in the middle of the tubing, I suggest running the tape around the end and also around the motor housing but make sure not to impede the place the motor mounts. That way the torque will pull against both the end and the middle where it will be held firmly by the tape.

We think this will be "The Fix" for this inherent problem with our beloved Kats. What we do not know is the length of time the tape will hold after going through hot and cold cycles. So far after 2 months of some heat in FL, we have not had a problem. But if we do, the fix can be redone as easily as it was done when first required.

My key to this process is the wrapping around the end and the tight spiraling between flat tapings. Take your time and get a buddy to help you hold and tape and it will go very easy and fast.

Sorry I had to tease you all a bit, but I have to say it was a little fun!

Now go out and fix or enhance your existing regulators so they do not break. With the taping on the regulator prior to it breaking, I believe you will never have it break. That is what I'm doing for the one that still is intact.

Wally

posted 10-20-2007 10:17 PM                  

John has a piece of strapping tape that was wound around a roll of carpet from 1984 sitting in his (hot and cold) warehouse and just recently took it off the carpet. He had to cut it off and it would not break at all and he tried to break it thinking that since it was over 20 years old it would just flake off or tear, but it did not.

Just so that you and everyone else understands, I really have no idea how long this will last. But I do believe that it will last longer than maybe you or I think and if so, I will be glad to do another tape job that takes a whole 30 minutes and fix it again for less than $5 or less.

I'm not experienced enough to do the epoxy fix without messing it all up and then what do I have? A mess to fix the fix. I'm sure it worked great for you and for anyone else that has tried it. The taping fix can be done by all and any Kat owner willing to try, given the fact that they have to know or be able to remove the regulator in the first place.

We waited for the fix to go through numerous hot and cold cycles and repeated up and down cycles of the window to see if indeed it would hold. I was going to wait 6 months to post the fix, but seeing the number of Kats that were having the problem, I decided to post now to give others a different, cheap painless possible fix.

The first taping fix did not work because we didn't go around the end for support. When you look down the window with the door panel off, you can see the enormous torque placed on the tubing by the motor when it reaches the end of the cycle. That is what causes the breaking after the tubing get brittle after repeated hot and cold cycles. I've noticed that with the tape on the tubing, the tubing does not flex as much as it did prior to the tape being applied. Maybe a good thing, maybe not. I even think Kraut's fix with the clamps, etc. was good, but that would not help my situation with the break at the elbow.

Believe me, I am open to all ideas and assumptions, but for a quick fix that may last longer than either of us think, this is a no-brainer. At this point I may be wrong but time will tell and I'm ready to embrace that. I will update this post in 6 months or less if the fix does not hold.

Here's hoping for the best for all!

posted 11-08-2007 11:36 PM                  

Here's what I found and the fix that I ended up with:
After reading the various Forum entries that have dealt with this problem over the years, I found AND followed the now infamous "Kraut Fix" from 5/30/06. (as shown here: http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002685.html )
I carefully followed all instructions but omitted the pool cue tip suggestion since I only had a break in the tubing approx 3" from the rear "elbow" on the window regulator assembly. The Poly Tubing should be enough to reinforce the stock tubing and hold it together where it had broken as shown in Kraut's detailed instructions. Once completed, I even tested the regulator assembly several times prior to putting it back in the door to be sure that it would hold up. All appeared well.

I proceeded to put the regulator assembly back in the door and then cleaned and replaced the window and proceeded to test my new assembly. All seemed fine and the unit tested fine for about 12 attempts. (Here's a tip: prior to putting the assembly back into the door, if you hook up the motor and door switches and put the regulator in the upmost or raised position it is actually easier to fit back in the door. (IMO) But you'll have to plave the regulator in the middle position to replace and tighten the screws that hold the window in place.)

Anyway, shortly after those 12 test runs I realized that I now had a new problem. When I looked down into the door I realized that the newly reinforced "Tube" had now separated from the rear "elbow" where, prior to the fix, this had not been a problem. Now I fully understood why WallyGator (here in THIS thread) had suggested the use of fiberglass strapping tape to provide a wrap not only around the tubing but ALSO around the elbow.
I guess I just have to learn the hard way! ( I keep learning this lesson for some reason!)

So yes, Wallygator, you're right! There DOES need to be reinforcement given to the joint between the tube and the elbow. Several ideas have previously been suggested. I've seen Duct Tape and Glue suggested. I've seen a piece of aluminum can wrapped with wire and/or epoxy putty suggested as well. And now, here's a suggestion to use strapping tape. But like the other ideas, I really didn't trust the strapping tape idea as a long term fix (no offense Wallygator! ). It may last 1 month, 1 year or 2 years or more. Then again, it might fail at the most embarrassing time! It's hard to speculate. Plus, after dealing with the removal of the door panel, I really didn't want to go through that again. So I actually stopped what I was doing and thought about how I might combine the 2 fixes and solve this problem long term.

So here's my solution: (It's a challenge to describe so stay with me.)

First, reinforce the tubing with the strapping tape where the break is and also around where the tubing joins the elbow. This will keep the tubing & the elbow together while you work on it. Don't use to much tape because you still need the Poly Tubing to go around it (1-2 layers is enough). Using the Kraut Fix as a reference, make the piece of Poly Tubing approx 3 inches LONGER than that of the length of the stock tube. Split it down one side as shown in the Kraut Fix. Then, on 1 end ONLY, split the tubing on the other side as well (about 3" ONLY) . Now you can separate the 2 sides of the Poly Tubing and align them as "flaps" along the sides of the "elbow".

Now use the doubled side tape on the stock tubing as shown and extend the tape to the end of the elbow. Carefully put the Poly Tubing around the stock tubing and align the "flaps" of the poly tubing along each side the elbow. Now drill a 11/64 hole in the "flaps" of the Poly Tubing where they line up with the "hole" that's already at the apex of the elbow. Now you can put a machine screw through the flaps of the Poly Tubing AND through the hole in the elbow. Be sure and use small flat washers both at the screw head and at the nut and ALSO use a drop of Locktite so that this stays together. Tighten firmly so that the flaps of the poly tubing flatten out, but not too tight. Now put the clamps on the poly tubing as shown in the Kraut Fix. Trim the flap ends of the poly tubing as required and test the assembly.

In the pictures below I added a Hose Collar at the joint with an additional clamp to give it strength but I no longer believe this is required. 1 or 2 clamps like the other ones is all that is required but don't tighten these clamps too much as you'll place extra drag on the motor.

Now you have not only reinforced the tubing where the break is, but you have also reinforced the joint between the tubing and the elbow. The joint between the tubing and the elbow can no longer separate! This seems like a long term fix to me and I don't have to worry whether the strapping tape will age and/or rot. So far my testing seems to agree, but then it's only been about 2 weeks since I completed the drivers door.

I plan to do this to the passenger side once my sore fingertips are healed from working with the Poly Tubing! (Oh, and sore knees too!)

Here are pictures of the finished assembly at the rear elbow of the Window Regulator Assembly.

Here's a picture of the finished assembly at the front elbow. (this is the reverse view because the nut has to be under the metal mounting bracket and not the screw head.)
The front one is a bit more challenging, you might need to use a slightly longer machine screw.

Well, that's my fix!
I hope it helps others with this problem.

Scott
(no longer a Prowler newbie)

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2001 Orange Pearl (acquired 11/12/06)
Front Ball Joint Recall (12/06)
Coolant Flush (12/06)
New Clockspring (2/07)
TSB 09-002-04 (2/07)
Tranny Cooler Cover (1/07)
Splash Guards all around (2/07)
Larry Lord's Wonder Bar (3/07)
Clear Backup Lenses (4/07)
K&N Air Filter (7/07)
Mobil1 Full Synthetic Oil (8/07)
Front Ceramic Brake Pads (Bosch 8/07)
New Windsuppressor (8/07)
New Koni Shocks (10/07)
Running perfect! (priceless!)