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MDProwler	One thing I hate the most is when you respond to a topic but then find that the entire thread has been deleted. So I'll repost my thoughts here again. The subject being upper and lower frame braces and their effectiveness or the lack thereof. I have seen these for sale many times by many different people but never has anyone (to my knowledge) provided any credible evidence that they do anything but add weight to the car. I had one on my car for a season and then gave it away. I did not notice any difference on or off. If it does stiffen the frame then logic has it that it will stiffen the ride. But then some people will use these then change out the front sway bar for a softer ride. Doesn't one defeat the other? I still feel that this is a mod of preference without any concrete evidence such as before and after frame movement specs. Snake oil in my opinion. But if you really want to have one buy a $10 bar of steel and drill two holes in it.
beachcat	I feel the same on these. I've never seen any engineering rational behind them. If they were such a simple fix for something, wouldn't the Chrysler engineers have come up with it. I also feel, in the absence of engineering data, you could be creating problems for your car. Some of them do look pretty cool. But nobody would notice them not being there. There is a new thread on them here: http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/009190.html This message has been edited by beachcat on 02-24-2013 at 08:57 PM
treyb	What the heck I will give it a try! I have the grill nose one that I put on a long time ago. The lower brace is not that expensive. I don't think the average owner really pushes the car that much to really test or even really need any of the potiential benfits (to your point if they exsist) I will put it on the hemi Kat and give it a Whirl. I dont think it can hurt. I can say that I will have a chance to push it and the hemi Kat a bit as I will be doing my first road course full track day on April 8 at Lime rock raceway in CT. There will be some performance driving and turns going down! This 1.53 facility is a roller coaster ride that deserves its nickname as the Road Racing Center of the East. From the challenging uphill, to the fast 90 degree West Bend turn, to the exhilarating downhill turn - this track has it all. Lets see what we can do!! Fun fun!
catfish	the frame braces are worthless. ------------------
dskatt	Trey that looks like a lot of fun. There is a new track near New Orleans that I would like to try but their web site says no soft tops without a roll bar.
alrtg	quote: Originally posted by dskatt: Trey that looks like a lot of fun. There is a new track near New Orleans that I would like to try but their web site says no soft tops without a roll bar. He bought a hardtop for just that reason.
treyb	Alrtg is right. I spoke with all of the driving groups early on in the build. Each of them are a bit different. The group scda accepted the Prowler with a hardtop. Most require full roll bars. I also spoke with nasa NE chapter which is national and they said they would also clear me. A point of clarification this isn't racing like tv and I'm in the novice group, your with an instructor the whole day and its a mix of classroom and actual track experience. I'm not looking to be a racer but to learn to drive better. Taking corners, making turns, handling under steer, over steer etc. more like professional driving in a safe environment. I rarely speed on the street. The Car is a moving police target I choose scda because I really like what they stand for and it will improve my driving! I have alot to learn with the hemi kat its a completely different car (very light, w/ lots of power, so driving smart not just fast is key) Before the build my one day of a auto x road course taught me more about the prowler than 10 years of driving the car on the street. it was much more fun than drag racing, it challenges everything you know as a driver and you learn the cars limits. Now doing a full track is Checking off the bucket list! A dream of mine was to have a Hemi prowler and drive it on a real race track. I always got turned down with the soft top before. SCDA Mission Statement The Sports Car Driving Association's goal is to provide the high performance driving enthusiast an opportunity to experience the thrill of driving in a safe and controlled environment. These events are strictly non-competitive, driver educational events, and are for educational purposes only. This is not a racing school. Here is the schedule for novice in green This message has been edited by treyb on 02-25-2013 at 06:27 PM
Larry Lord	quote: Originally posted by MDProwler: One thing I hate the most is when you respond to a topic but then find that the entire thread has been deleted. So I'll repost my thoughts here again. The subject being upper and lower frame braces and their effectiveness or the lack thereof. I have seen these for sale many times by many different people but never has anyone (to my knowledge) provided any credible evidence that they do anything but add weight to the car. I had one on my car for a season and then gave it away. I did not notice any difference on or off. If it does stiffen the frame then logic has it that it will stiffen the ride. But then some people will use these then change out the front sway bar for a softer ride. Doesn't one defeat the other? I still feel that this is a mod of preference without any concrete evidence such as before and after frame movement specs. Snake oil in my opinion. But if you really want to have one buy a $10 bar of steel and drill two holes in it. Back to the original subject. MDProwler, I completely agree with you regarding frame braces. If the suspension is allowed to do it's job the frame does not have to do all the work. Here's some old info that may help to explain my Wonder Bars and why they offer you a smoother ride. The Wonder Bar is a stabilizer bar that I’ve designed and manufacture for the Prowlers. A Wonder Bar is a direct bolt in replacement for the stock stabilizer bar that offers an amazing difference in your Prowler’s ride quality. By utilizing a smaller diameter and hollow tube, the Wonder Bar allows your front wheels to operate more independently and smooth out your ride. The Wonder Bar has less tensional strength than the stock stabilizer bar and gives a noticeable difference in ride quality over rough road surfaces or when one wheel hits a pothole or bump. Your Prowler’s effective spring rates are not compromised for straight line driving but are lessened while one wheel reacts independently of the other or during cornering or over bumps. You will notice a very slight increase in body roll during hard cornering but will also notice a marked increase in front traction. Do not confuse the Wonder Bar with any of the many aftermarket braces that others have offered for the Prowlers. • A brace is just that. It’s a brace to help keep your frame from flexing and I do not feel they are needed or even helpful. Prowler frames are heat treated and very rigid in the front section. • A Wonder Bar is a direct bolt-in replacement for your front stabilizer bar. Stabilizer bars are also often referred to as anti-roll bars or sway bars and are an integral part of you car's suspension. Major Causes of UNDERSTEER a.k.a. PUSH Too large front bar vs. rear sway bar Too small front tires or narrow rim width Too stiff front springs Low front tire pressure Oversize rear tires The Wonder Bar will not only smooth your ride but it will also help to make your car handle better. Here's the lowdown on stabilizer bars for those that may not be familiar with the way they work and how they can allow a MUCH SMOOTHER RIDE while at the same time enhancing the handling characteristics of the Prowler. Stabilizer bars are part of a car's suspension system. They are sometimes also called anti-sway bars or anti-roll bars. Their purpose in life is to try to keep the car's body from "rolling" in a sharp turn. A stabilizer bar tries to keep the car's body flat by moving force from one side of the body to another. To picture how a stabilizer bar works, imagine a solid metal rod about 2 foot long that is 1.25” in diameter with 2 fixed arms extending perpendicularly about 8 inches from each end. Attach the rod to the frame of the car in front of the front tires, but attach it with bushings in such a way that it can rotate. Now attach arms from the rod to the front suspension rocker arms on both sides by using a straight links that will force the bar to move vertically when the suspension moves up or down. When you go into a turn, the front suspension member of the outside of the turn gets pushed upward. The arm of the sway bar gets pushed downward, and this applies torsion to the rod. The torsion then moves the arm at the other end of the rod, and this causes the suspension on the other side of the car to compress as well. The car's body tends to stay flat in the turn. If you don't have a stabilizer bar, you tend to have a lot of trouble with body roll in a turn. If you have too much stabilizer bar, you tend to lose independence between the suspension members on both sides of the car. When one wheel hits a bump, the stabilizer bar transmits the bump to the other side of the car as well, causing a rough ride and handling characteristics that you do not want. A too stiff stabilizer bar will cause the car to feel like it jumps sideways when you hit a bump or pothole while making a turn. Too stiff of a stabilizer bar will also cause your car to have a tendency to lock it's inside front wheel when braking hard in a turn due to weight transfer off the inside front wheel. The ideal strength stabilizer bar reduces body roll but does not hurt the independence of the tires. ------------------ Larry (Cruise Control) Lord Larry@FMBbox.com Products for your Prowler and Trailer: Wonder Bar Stabilizer Bars - Deck Lid Hinge Protectors - Trailer Latch Reinforcement Kits - Keyed Alike Chrome Coupler Locksets - Chrome Receiver Locks - Chrome Coupler Locks FMB Truck Outfitters Facebook page FMB Truck Outfitters Online Store This message has been edited by Larry Lord on 02-26-2013 at 01:28 AM
RPL	and that's why different strength bars are offered for popular cars, to tune the suspension to track conditions and driver ability. Larry makes the only alternative for our low volume car. We need to be grateful for and support the people that have stepped up to provide our community with alternatives.
aprilia76	When i first bought the prowler, I bought it to have fun. I have done alot of thing to it and I have broken almost everything on it. When I first drove the car I didn't like it due to much flexing on the car going over 90mph. It felt like if I was on a boat(very scary going 90mph+). I bought the prowler pro braces and it fix the problem of flexing. Well, I ended breaking the A-arm. Thru out the years I broke about 4 arms, and the last time the dealer forgot to put the top brace on and I noticed that it handle poorly like when I first bought it. No reason to buy if you are a cruzer but if you have a led foot, you will notice the diffrence. Thats why I bought the missing upper brace so I can have fun again. Just my thoughts and experience. Did I mention I use to race superbikes.