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Forum:Political Off Topic
Topic:Tax Cuts
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T O P I C     R E V I E W
reechee Do Tax Cuts Increase Revenue?


There is little evidence to support it. Indeed, as evident in the following graph, the evidence suggests that tax cuts do not increase revenues to the government in any meaningful way, but instead increase government deficits.
http://rricketts.ba.ttu.edu/Tax%20Rates%20and%20Revenues.htm


And of course there is Kansas.


And from the horse's mouth:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/28/i-helped-create-the-gop-tax-myth-trump-is-wrong-tax-cuts-dont-equal-growth/?utm_term=.ba37cb918ac0#comments

This message has been edited by reechee on 10-10-2017 at 03:42 PM

BeWareSo reechee, what percent of increase in your tax deductions from your income will you be volunteering to help the Government decrease the deficit and increase revenue? After all they spend our money so wisely and never lie to us about it.

reechee
quote:
Originally posted by BeWare:
So reechee, what percent of increase in your tax deductions from your income will you be volunteering to help the Government decrease the deficit and increase revenue? After all they spend our money so wisely and never lie to us about it.


Did your life demonstratively improve with the GWB tax cuts? The U.S. was on track to be completely out of debt by 2011. We actually had a budget surplus. The Bush ruined that with his tax cuts. Just imagine having a surplus. A rainy day fund if you like. It could pay for unexpected disasters like we have had recently.

BeWareMy personal life actually did improve in some ways during W's 8 years but not really due to anything he did or didn't do. W was a lousy President in many ways.

What happened to the debt / deficit under Obama? In case you forgot. Despite collecting record setting tax revenues the national debt increased during Obama's 8 years by more than all previous Presidents combined. Thanks to Obama both North Korea and Iran pose serious threats to our Nation and our allies.

So I ask the same question. Did your life demonstratively improve under his presidency as direct result of his tax policies?

I don't know about you but we lost our family doctor we had for many many years and our health care insurance premiums rose significantly. We had to go with an HMO. It's now harder to get a decent appointment schedule dates/times, wait times at the HMO offices are longer and I rarely see the same Doctor twice.

This message has been edited by BeWare on 10-11-2017 at 11:47 AM

BeWareOh and buy the way, I do give Bill Clinton props for the way he handled the Budget / National Debt. That was one thing he did well as President. And another thing I will say positive about Clinton is he was willing to move in some ways more to the center in his policies. Unlike the self proclaimed Liberal's Savior Obama who moved even farter to the extreme left after he was elected (he was so far left before that was quite a feat).
mslc10Life was very good after 9/11..... oh that's right ...forgot about that little tragedy. Till the real estate financial crisis ....and I believe all that forcing institutions to make loans that probably won't be repaid started under Clinton crime syndicate.
But make no mistake W is a good person , but NOT a conservative!
------------------
He who dies with the most toys, wins! Remember, pawn shops don't take memories!

This message has been edited by mslc10 on 10-14-2017 at 09:06 PM

Michael PondBeware, You hit the nail on the head!!!
reechee
BeWareReagan vs. Obama: The Largest Tax Cut in American History Remembered

Ashley Pratte
Posted: Aug 13, 2014 12:39 PM


Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the signing of the Economic Recovery Tax Act by President Reagan at his beloved Rancho del Cielo.

The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 was one of the signature pieces of legislation during Reagan’s tenure as President. The bill cut taxes by 25 percent for every American, the largest tax cut in American history.

President Reagan made it a point to sign this historic piece of legislation at his humble ranch home nestled away in the mountains outside of Santa Barbara. He recognized that the power rested with the people and not the bureaucrats in Washington. By signing the document at Rancho del Cielo, he sent the message to the country that he was a President who had the people’s best interests at heart.

Once these tax cuts were implemented, youth unemployment plummeted. Youth unemployment began at 18.8 percent under Reagan and fell to 10.7 percent by the end of his Presidency. Reagan believed in economic freedom and the idea that every individual should have the opportunity to prosper if they worked hard.

Compare that to today. Youth unemployment sits at a high of 18.1 percent with no hope of improvement. Millennials are now realizing their post-graduation employment opportunities are slim. Currently six million young people are idle, which means they are neither attending school nor working. Others are living at home, working part-time jobs, barely able to afford their monthly student loan payments. How will this generation be able to prepare for retirement or save to buy a house or achieve their “American Dream?”


Today’s young people deserve better than the current President offers with his detrimental economic policies. Young people were some of Obama’s most enthusiastic supporters, but now the reality of their support is burdensome. The promises of free healthcare and employment after college never came to fruition. The reality is that Reagan’s signature piece of legislation helped young people and led to a long period of economic growth, whereas Obama’s signature legislation, Obamacare, is killing jobs and creating economic hardship for many Americans-- especially millennials.

Reagan recognized that Washington’s power needed to be limited and controlled which is vastly different than the viewpoint of the current President, who constantly puts more power in the hands of federal bureaucrats. Ronald Reagan is quoted as famously saying, “The government isn’t the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.” Obama’s policies have created little to no opportunity for America’s youth. His policies are the problem.

President Reagan was a champion of young people and truly believed in enacting initiatives that created a bright future for them. On this anniversary of the largest tax cut in American history, let us renew our commitment to Reagan’s lasting accomplishments by advancing the principles of economic freedom, individual liberty, and opportunity.

http://townhall.com/columnists/ashleypratte/2014/08/13/reagan-vs-obama-the-largest-tax-cut-in-american-history-remembered-n1878259

BeWareReaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures


Peter Ferrara


In February 2009 I wrote an article for The Wall Street Journal entitled "Reaganomics v Obamanomics," which argued that the emerging outlines of President Obama’s economic policies were following in close detail exactly the opposite of President Reagan’s economic policies. As a result, I predicted that Obamanomics would have the opposite results of Reaganomics. That prediction seems to be on track.

When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%. At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). The Washington establishment at the time argued that this inflation was now endemic to the American economy, and could not be stopped, at least not without a calamitous economic collapse.

All of the above was accompanied by double -igit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980. The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%. A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982. In addition, from 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

President Reagan campaigned on an explicitly articulated, four-point economic program to reverse this slow motion collapse of the American economy:

1. Cut tax rates to restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%.

2. Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan’s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%.


3. Anti-inflation monetary policy restraining money supply growth compared to demand, to maintain a stronger, more stable dollar value.

4. Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan’s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.

These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months.

During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed. Astoundingly, inflation from 1980 was reduced by more than half by 1982, to 6.2%. It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently. The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.

Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade.

In The End of Prosperity, supply side guru Art Laffer and Wall Street Journal chief financial writer Steve Moore point out that this Reagan recovery grew into a 25-year boom, with just slight interruptions by shallow, short recessions in 1990 and 2001. They wrote:


We call this period, 1982-2007, the twenty-five year boom--the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth--assets minus liabilities--of all U.S. households and business ... was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, ... net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the twenty-five year boom than in the previous two hundred years.

What is so striking about Obamanomics is how it so doggedly pursues the opposite of every one of these planks of Reaganomics. Instead of reducing tax rates, President Obama is committed to raising the top tax rates of virtually every major federal tax. As already enacted into current law, in 2013 the top two income tax rates will rise by nearly 20%, counting as well Obama’s proposed deduction phase-outs.


The capital gains tax rate will soar by nearly 60%, counting the new Obamacare taxes going into effect that year. The total tax rate on corporate dividends would increase by nearly three times. The Medicare payroll tax would increase by 62% for the nation’s job creators and investors. The death tax rate would go back up to 55%. In his 2012 budget and his recent national budget speech, President Obama proposes still more tax increases.

Instead of coming into office with spending cuts, President Obama’s first act was a nearly $1 trillion stimulus bill. In his first two years in office he has already increased federal spending by 28%, and his 2012 budget proposes to increase federal spending by another 57% by 2021.

His monetary policy is just the opposite as well. Instead of restraining the money supply to match money demand for a stable dollar, slaying an historic inflation, we have QE1 and QE2 and a steadily collapsing dollar, arguably creating a historic reflation.

And instead of deregulation we have across-the-board re-regulation, from health care to finance to energy, and elsewhere. While Reagan used to say that his energy policy was to “unleash the private sector,” Obama’s energy policy can be described as precisely to leash the private sector in service to Obama’s central planning “green energy” dictates.


As a result, while the Reagan recovery averaged 7.1% economic growth over the first seven quarters, the Obama recovery has produced less than half that at 2.8%, with the last quarter at a dismal 1.8%. After seven quarters of the Reagan recovery, unemployment had
fallen 3.3 percentage points from its peak to 7.5%, with only 18% unemployed long-term for 27 weeks or more. After seven quarters of the Obama recovery, unemployment has fallen only 1.3 percentage points from its peak, with a postwar record 45% long-term unemployed.

Previously the average recession since World War II lasted 10 months, with the longest at 16 months. Yet today, 40 months after the last recession started, unemployment is still 8.8%, with America suffering the longest period of unemployment that high since the Great Depression. Based on the historic precedents America should be enjoying the second year of a roaring economic recovery by now, especially since, historically, the worse the downturn, the stronger the recovery. Yet while in the Reagan recovery the economy soared past the previous GDP peak after six months, in the Obama recovery that didn’t happen for three years. Last year the Census Bureau reported that the total number of Americans in poverty was the highest in the 51 years that Census has been recording the data.

Moreover, the Reagan recovery was achieved while taming a historic inflation, for a period that continued for more than 25 years. By contrast, the less-than-half-hearted Obama recovery seems to be recreating inflation, with the latest Producer Price Index data showing double-digit inflation again, and the latest CPI growing already half as much.

These are the reasons why economist John Lott has rightly said, “For the last couple of years, President Obama keeps claiming that the recession was the worst economy since the Great Depression. But this is not correct. This is the worst “recovery” since the Great Depression.”

However, the Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in. Similarly, the full results of Obamanomics won’t be in until his historic, comprehensive tax rate increases of 2013 become effective. While the Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom, will the opposite policies of Obamanomics, once fully phased in, kick off 25 years of economic stagnation, unless reversed?

Peter Ferrara is director of policy for the Carleson Center for Public Policy and senior fellow for entitlement and budget policy at the Heartland Institute. He served in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Reagan, and as associate deputy attorney general of the United States under President George H. W. Bush. He is the author of America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb, forthcoming from HarperCollins.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics- vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/#71bb45399ac9

This message has been edited by BeWare on 10-19-2017 at 09:25 AM

tangled up in BLUE...last I saw, 10% of the population pays 70% of the income taxes collected

...50% of the popularion pays no income taxes

...leaving 40% of the population to pay the remaining 30%

ed monahanIt was a GREAT idea when JFK explained how it works.
Landscape Doctor
Implement a consumption tax,,, end of story. Everyone pays,,, fair and simple. No more fileing taxes. Abolish the IRS as we know it.

Major welfare crackdown,,, if you are able bodied to work,,, you are cut off.

ed monahan

According to the latest IRS data, the payment of income taxes is as follows. The top 1 percent of income earners, those having an adjusted annual gross income of $480,930 or higher, pay about 39 percent of federal income taxes. That means about 892,000 Americans are stuck with paying 39 percent of all federal taxes. The top 10 percent of income earners, those having an adjusted gross income over $138,031, pay about 70.6 percent of federal income taxes (https://***********/yddvee2o). About 1.7 million Americans, less than 1 percent of our population, pay 70.6 percent of federal income taxes. Is that fair, or do you think they should pay more? By the way, earning $500,000 a year doesn't make one rich. It's not even yacht money.

But the fairness question goes further. The bottom 50 percent of income earners, those having an adjusted gross income of $39,275 or less, pay 2.83 percent of federal income taxes. Thirty-seven million tax filers have no tax obligation at all. The Tax Policy Center estimates that 45.5 percent of households will not pay federal income tax this year

Landscape DoctorThanks Ed,,, you just justified my statement. The leaches need to start coughing up.
georgieboyLD, you got it right, a consumption tax or sales tax. Everything purchased would be taxed. The more you spend the more you pay. The more money you have the more you will spend. The more tax you would pay. Its equal for everyone considering how much you have to spend.

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