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whealy	As a general rule, I don’t share this level of detail with even my friends. It usually just opens up to criticism by folks that don’t know all the facts. However, I’ve seen several posts on the subject of late (not predicting a mass sell of mind you – obviously just a chance for new blood in the POA) and I thought I would share the specifics of my transaction given that the members here are more than just friends. First I’m presenting actual trade in values. Typically when you go to trade in, the salesman will try and gauge which you are more interested in, low price for new or high price for trade in. They are more than willing to give you whatever discount they can off the new price and count it on your trade in if that’s where your interest lie. To them, it doesn’t matter as it’s the same money. That’s why on more expensive cars you can get better trade ins at times. They have more of a discount to give. So for me, I always go in under the same pretense. I figure I’m most likely going to sell my vehicle on my own regardless of if I’ve leased, financed or own it. I’ve done all three. So I tell the salesman that and ask for trade in value and sale value. They know I could come back and just do the purchase and they want to be competitive with others. So they accurately separate the amounts. And I found that the purchase prices was pretty much the same across the board. Not sharing that. Three months ago the RX-8 was selling for a premium (some Kat owners will remember that expereiecnce!). Two months ago they were selling for MSRP and now a month later they are selling for invoice. I’m somewhere in the middle. Now on to my most recent experience trading my cat. It was a Mulholland with 10K miles on it. Not listing mods. My opinion is dealers don’t really care about mods. I lifted most anyway. Most dealer won’t care about limited edition paint jobs like the Woodward or Black Tie either for trade in. I figured if I found the right buyer I could get between 31.5K – 30K depending on how long I wanted to wait if I sold it on my own. The first two dealers offered me 22K and 24K. Needless to say, I was very irritated as I always am when I go to trade in. I decided I was keeping it until spring and selling on my own for those prices. Then a third dealer called me back. They had gotten a buy bid from a lot in Texas that they dealt with for their unusually cars (I believe they used the word exotic ) They offered me 29.5K. I was floored. I couldn’t believe they had come up that high. That was a 34% difference from my low number! I decided that it was close enough to my selling price that I would part with it. Not that I was in a hurry, but the deal was too close to what I though would be the best I would get. So for anyone looking to trade their car, sorry, but, prepare to be disappointed in general. But if you really want to trade it, find a way to work with a dealer that will get it to a market where the prices are better than most. By the way, the dealer I purchase my Mazda from was CRAIG & LANDRETH MAZDA in Clarkesville, IN. I wouldn’t hesitate to look them up to find out who the lot was down in Texas and try to work them into your plans. As for my old kat, I’m pretty sure they kept it as opposed to sending it down, but I haven’t had the stomach to check! As I said in the opening, I’m sure there are lots of opinions on this, so flame away. I just think I gained way too much knowledge from this site to withhold information that might help others. Since I'm posting about Prowlers again, I'm using my sig. Hope no one minds. ------------------
Gary C	Thanks looking at the 3 series,,,,,, ZOOM ZOOM ZOOOOOOOMMM
Kat Dreamer	Whealy, I was just checking Ebay and someone just sold a Mulholland with 14K miles for $31K. With that in mind, 29.5 for a "trade-in" is outstanding. It is rare that a dealer will buy a car outright and not totally gouge you, as they attempted with your 2 lower quotes. Every time I sell a car, my wife gets the crazy notion in her head that we should just trade it in. Then we go through the motion of seeing what they will give us, only to have my wife offended by the ridiculously low offer. I go through it just to humor her. Congrats on a decent deal.
DR PROWLER	Bill,I agree with your opinion totally. I totally believe that dealers for the most part are afraid to put a realistic number on any trade they may not be too familiar with.They fear of not being able to wholesale it out and even worse being in stock for a long time collecting interest every day it sits. Most people when trading high end or exotic cars will resort to selling them privately instead. I'm glad it worked out in your case!
Neal & Mary Ann Bardens	Bill; I totally agree with you on how you handled your trade. I think you received a fair price and saved on sales tax in the process. Neal ------------------
ed monahan	Whealy, you are smarter than you look. lol You gave a very intelligent summation of the process. The dealers are in the business to make money. It makes me sick to think of how little my car is worth on the open market, but then it is not for sale so I guess it doesn't matter. You did pretty well, it seems to me. I really hated to read your post that you sold your car. I understand it is not family friendly with little kids. Hopefully in the not too distant future you will be back with us. Thanks for sharing and giving a realistic look at things.
CTProwler	I walk into a dealer with the idea that i'm not telling i have a car to trade in. I get my best price then bring up the possible trade in. When i was a kid people used to buy cars out of ads in newspapers all the time. I think cars under $20000 sell. I think as the prices go up people are afraid to buy privately. I think you did good, but also think they may have had a buyer for it. When i went in to look at a 2004 Viper that just came in at a local dealer, they said they would have to find a wholesaler to buy my 2001 XKR conv 4000 miles. They couldn't find one for a couple days. But in about a week they came up $5000 because they may have found a buyer for it. JMO I didn't trade it in figured the XKR was worth a lot more then they were willing to give. I'm sure a few guys out there will be calling for your dealers name in TX. I see Texas Toys a lot on Ebay selling prowlers ------------------ This message has been edited by CTProwler on 01-26-2004 at 11:16 PM
GUB	To go a bit more into the subject of trade in. The dealer will increase the so called price they took the trade in on for, by adding the dollars off the new purchase and as they added them to your trade in. So, if they actually gave you 24 G's for your cars and than took 4 G's off the new car and said they would give you 28. They than would treat the used car as if they had taken it in for 28 and price it based on that number. They than would be happy to resell it to you for the bargin price of 28. There actual cost, sure!!!
YellowFever	quote: Originally posted by DR PROWLER: Bill,I agree with your opinion totally. I totally believe that dealers for the most part are afraid to put a realistic number on any trade they may not be too familiar with.They fear of not being able to wholesale it out and even worse being in stock for a long time collecting interest every day it sits. Most people when trading high end or exotic cars will resort to selling them privately instead. I'm glad it worked out in your case! Don't kid yourself. They know the value of anything that comes through the doors and if they don't they make about 10 calls and find out. It's all about dollars and sense and these guys aren't in business to take a guess on a car and find out later it's worth alot less. As far as wholesaling, that deal is worked out before you sign the car away. Usually they have something like 10 to 15 days to get the car to the wholesaler (paperwork) so they try and sell it themselves during that period. If no serious takers, the car goes as planned. If they sell it, then they make more. In this short a period, the car really is never even floorplanned (sold before first interest payment due). I doubt seriously if they keep the car for months THEN call a wholesaler.
DR PROWLER	Just like Mutual funds or stocks-you win some,you lose some.The higher the ticket,the greater the risk.Look at e-bay for example-similar cars varying in price sometimes $10000 or more.Dealer may get a number from 5 different people who do not want to commit to the car varying by thousands of dollars.Then the appraised value will be the most conservative figure they can come up without stretching their necks out. This message has been edited by DR PROWLER on 01-27-2004 at 10:46 AM
KlasKat	After many years of having these "Dealers" try to beat you up on the new car price and then offer you next to nothing after you drive it around the block I decided to try an "Auto Broker." I had 2 cars I needed to sell and then buy just one good one to replace them. I had a 99 blazer which was a 2 door, very stylish but very hard to get a second couple in the back seats. Also had a 95 Mazda with 90,000 miles on it and was too small to take a second couple in. The Broker gave me a good deal on the trade-ins, thousands more than any dealer would and close to what I could have sold them for if I wanted to spend a month trying to sell them myself. Then he looked for exactly what I wanted and found an 2001 Acura for about $2,000.00 under what all the dealers wanted. Over all I think I saved at least $4,000.00 going through the Broker. When a Broker is selling your car you do not have to do any advertising, put up with tons of "lookers" with no money and people that want to give you half of what it is worth. On the buying side, they again do all the leg work, they checkout the car to make sure it is not a lemon or been wrecked, get all the paperwork taken care of, and can look across the country and find exactly what you want. Even with shipping it comes in way under what the dealer is going to charge you. The Dealers have a huge overhead to keep going including the millions they spend on advertising and having all the inventory. Watch how many ads are for new cars this week on or before the Superbowl. That's what you are paying for when you go to dealers. I know some of you probably are dealers or work at dealerships and you can go off on me if you want to but I find them to have taken advantage of the buying public for too long and I will never purchase a car from one again. This message has been edited by PAHs Sunset Ride on 01-27-2004 at 01:00 PM
superdoppler	I was offered 25k for my 01 Mulholland with 22k miles as a trade in from a dealer, but I passed. I don't think it was an awful deal, but it didn't seem to be enough to really get rid of the car.
YellowFever	quote: Originally posted by superdoppler: I was offered 25k for my 01 Mulholland with 22k miles as a trade in from a dealer, but I passed. I don't think it was an awful deal, but it didn't seem to be enough to really get rid of the car. That $25K also probably included any discount, rebates, etc. off the new one. They probably were giving you more like $20K for it.
onaprwl	Whealy, Just curious but did you let your custom bra go with the car? ------------------
whealy	Al, CT Prowler has it now. See his post here.
prowlergirl	For a site where most of the members are Prowler owners, there sure is a lot of talk on here about selling and what people receive for their vehicles when they sell them. To us the trade in value is basically irrelevant because ours is a keeper. I can't imagine ever selling her. She has been promised to my daughter (Prowlergirl) and hopefully our Prowler will remain in our family indefinitely. Ron
CJ	I agree with Ron.....no intention of giving either of mine up!!! I figure my sons can fight over them when I'm gone!
Black Tie 161	..just goes to prove: If you want the best price, you have to sell privately...even though it's a hassle. the dealers know that, and that's why they get away with lowball offers.
Lone Ranger	quote: Originally posted by Black Tie 161: ..just goes to prove: If you want the best price, you have to sell privately...even though it's a hassle. the dealers know that, and that's why they get away with lowball offers. I agree. The dealers know how hard it is for someone to sell to a private owner but i try to sell that way as much as possible. Haven't had much of a problem with buyers in the last ten years or so. It's not that hard to do depending on the car.
Top Kat	Bill, nice of you to share. Hope to see you in another Kat, someday. AND, others may share your RED, WHITE, and BLUE experience, with the bra and stars, but there was truly only "one" . That's you "Whealy" , and that special one of kind Kat, that is now in someone else's garage. Jim