posted 02-17-2011 10:46 PM                  

Isn't union membership for jobs under collective bargaining agreements,,down to 6% of the present work force?

And don't say I'm anti-union, as I was a loyal 30 year member of the UFCW union. I recognized the issues on both sides of the table.

posted 02-18-2011 12:57 AM                  

I don't know about your union. I am a member of the IBEW (electrician) and we have no seniority. If you don't produce, you will be out of work. We do, however, have good benefits which we would not get with a non-union employer and we are treated with dignity.

Yes, union membership is way down. I feel it is largely because the laws governing organizing are heavily weighted toward the employers. If a workforce votes in a union, the employer can delay for years any implementation and ultimately (and usually) get rid of pro union employees.

The mantra going up now regarding how the state union employees are overpaid and under worked is part of the ongoing assault against unions. They are playing up class warfare by saying "Hey, look what a great deal these guys have. Don't you resent it. Let's take it away and make them peons just like you."

Instead, if more of the private sector was organized they too would have better working conditions and perhaps not live hand to mouth.

I don't think it can really be denied that this is really and attack on unions. To make them have to have everybody rejoin the union on a yearly basis and make dues voluntary is another method to economically drain the unions.

Republicans have never liked unions.

I get to vote for my union leadership. If I don't like the job they are doing, I can vote someone else in. We cannot say that about corporate leadership. The workers have no say in who runs the company. And in this economic climate, it makes it that much more difficult to go elsewhere if you have issues with your employer.

When all the power is in the hands of the employer, the individual is powerless. We will all be fighting each other and groveling for crumbs.

posted 02-18-2011 07:09 AM                  

Reechee,,,you make some good points as well. Good benefits are a huge plus with bargaining work contracts. My ex and I worked for the same company, and had $2M of healthcare for the entire family, with NO co-pays. But living in a 'right to work' state had many drawbacks. 60% of the workers belonged to the union, while the other 40% didn't pay dues but still enjoyed the wages and benefits of us who paid the dues. Three times during my 30 years, we were really close to striking,,,,yet the non-union members would always say they would cross the line to work, if we went out on strike!

"Republicans have never liked unions."

You think that may be because the unions have always donated large sums of money to the Democrats only? They donate to those who they can 'buy' with their dollars. I prefer to vote for candidates who will try to keep taxes lower, and less government involvement in our daily lives. The union 'bought' votes have given them OSHA and many more laws and agencies which cost and tie up the hands of employers. Some good laws, and some bad ones as well. Lots of red tape. Its no wonder we can't get gasoline refineries and power plants built any longer,,,due to the federal red tape. How has that helped in creating jobs? How are MSDS books and data, helping the average person who doesn't even know what the hell it means?

"The workers have no say in who runs the company."

Why should they,,,,is it their dollar investment that started and runs the company, and makes the decisions to make a profit to support themselves, and those of their workers,,,,or other investors in the company? That is the weakest argument you can make!

I always have supported the unions,,,coming from a family of a union father and mother. Although,,,I've seen the losers who after five and ten years of employment with a company, turn into slow motion, benefit milking, poor attitude workers who in turn bring down the production and attitudes of fellow workers,, to become the same. Those are the people who make employers frown at the additional costs involved in being required to keep those employees on the payroll with their union job protection and seniority clauses. Sorry your union doesn't protect your job position,,,since you state you are a positive/productive worker. Many trade unions work on that system,,,working for the union hall, and not for any one employer.

We could go on and on with point and counter-point rhetoric,,,but some middle ground has to be reached and maintained. Guess that will be a discussion on this thread for some time to come. Try sitting on the fence, and looking at both sides of the feeding grounds.

posted 02-18-2011 01:08 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Hawaiian:
,,,,,,, Bottom line, Wisconsin is broke and deep in debt.

Don't you just love the way how the 14 democrat leader handle this situation? by hiding in a hotel.

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Wisconsin, like many other states, is in deep crap financially. Time to tighten the belt, and tell the teachers to take a walk if they don't want to deal with some concessions. There are no God given 'rights' to anything about having a job. If the teachers strike,,,so be it.
There are 30,,,no 300,,,no 3000, unemployed teachers ready to step in and take their jobs immediately.

Adiós Amigo.....

I heard the 14 coward, Democrats left the state of Wisconsin and are in hiding? They probably now have passed the ball to BHO, their leader, to see how he will respond to the top education union brass.

The NEA union bosses are a bunch of thieves, for the most part. Always demanding more money for teachers, more money for classrooms, and less students per teacher quotas. Yet, the education system is worse off every year, in terms of students who drop out and the ones who graduate but can hardly read, write, or speak. The taxpayers keep throwing more and more money into the education system,,,'its for the children',,,but I don't see the results are better because of it. Throwing more dollars into the fire isn't going to help the situation. Its a never ending pit. Too many school districts, too many non-teaching positions with administration desk sitters, too many school buses, etc.

I'm sure there are good educational union people and educators out there. Only problem is that they are fewer in numbers than in decades past. Time to re-vamp the system.

posted 02-18-2011 06:52 PM                  

With Gov. Unions and State and local Gov. there is no profit to be made. Management is not dealing with it's own money. Unions always want more and Management wants to be re-elected. Unions provide votes and Management pays for them. The result is long coming but inevitable, we're broke!

Just two examples I am aware of. My Sister is a employee of the State. She will retire in 3 yrs. at the age of 53. My best friend retired from City Gov. at the age of 48. They each will draw 80% of there highest yearly salary. Guess what he did and she will do the last year? Work as much overtime as they can. The overtime is feed to them because all of their co-workers know the scam and will work it when the times comes for them to retire.

We can't do this anymore!

posted 02-18-2011 08:08 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by dskatt:
The problem Wisconsin and other states face is different then what goes on between private companies and private unions. Private parties have something in common, the health of the company. If compensation and benefits get out of whack, the company fails and all loose.

With Gov. Unions and State and local Gov. there is no profit to be made. Management is not dealing with it's own money. Unions always want more and Management wants to be re-elected. Unions provide votes and Management pays for them. The result is long coming but inevitable, we're broke!

Just two examples I am aware of. My Sister is a employee of the State. She will retire in 3 yrs. at the age of 53. My best friend retired from City Gov. at the age of 48. They each will draw 80% of there highest yearly salary. Guess what he did and she will do the last year? Work as much overtime as they can. The overtime is feed to them because all of their co-workers know the scam and will work it when the times comes for them to retire.

We can't do this anymore!

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very well stated!

posted 02-19-2011 11:09 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Hawaiian:
There are pros and cons on both side but, Bottom line, Wisconsin is broke and deep in debt. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. Don't you just love the way how the 14 democrat leader handle this situation? by hiding in a hotel.

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You think Wisconsin is broke , We are in worse shape here in California than most of the country. Something needs to happen to bring spending within guidelines of income or all of us will be living in the streets.

posted 02-20-2011 06:50 AM                  

Another big problem we have is the $12,500, per person, we spend to jail and deport the illegals. Its the feds responsibility, but they aren't paying the state back the funds owed. Next, will come taking away dollars from the state's Education department (like Wisconsin). Too much spent on administration costs, workers/teachers benefits, buses, etc. All hell will break loose next!

__________________________________________________________

Phil,,,Cally's deficit is > $25.4 billion

I don't see your new governor taking away from the poo, or the illegals living there.
Guess your taxes will have to go UP on everything?
Isn't it fantastic to help all of those people who want to live off of your back? Lock your doors, and be armed, lol.

posted 02-20-2011 02:57 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by phil2237:
You think Wisconsin is broke , We are in worse shape here in California than most of the country. Something needs to happen to bring spending within guidelines of income or all of us will be living in the streets.

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posted 02-22-2011 05:10 AM                  

Chicago city government has been taking more and more powers away from the unions. The way that Boss Daley has dealt with them is to offer them their jobs period in order to get his wanted concessions. If the unions refuse, then Daley will phase out that position and then make it a civilian position (or private sector) with the bid going to a friend of the mayor (of course).
He has the police and fire unions over a barrel since they have "no strike" clauses in their contracts. And since management knows that people don't stick together like they used to (no more "Blue flu or Red flu"), the city can pretty much do what they want. Any raises that the police and fire departments get are BELOW the cost of living increases. In fact a recent raise that was given to police and fire at the beginning of the year were COMPLETELY NEGATED by the recent tax increases.