posted 10-04-2010 07:45 PM                  

There is a sort of childish taunt that liberals use against proper libertarians sometimes, in which they humorously propose that the fire department be privatized, because the "invisible hand" of the market would be more efficient at putting out house fires. And then everyone has a laugh -- the liberals because they think they just scored a really great rhetorical point, and the libertarians because they are high.

Meanwhile, out in Tennessee, a man's house burned down because he didn't pay the fire department.

The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.

Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.

The mayor said if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.

This fire went on for hours because garden hoses just wouldn't put it out. It wasn't until that fire spread to a neighbor's property, that anyone would respond.

Turns out, the neighbor had paid the fee.
[...]
It was only when a neighbor's field caught fire, a neighbor who had paid the county fire service fee, that the department responded. Gene Cranick asked the fire chief to make an exception and save his home, the chief wouldn't.

So some self-interested rational actor decided not to pay for fire protection -- an optional service -- and then his house burned down, because the firefighters obviously didn't want to open the firefighting program up to a bunch of free riders.

* Continue reading

Daniel Foster, The Corner's resident hip libertarian-leaning conservative, is rightly appalled by this entire story. He has no problem with opt-in government, of course! It's just that he has this crazy notion that the firefighters had a moral responsibility to stop a man's house from burning down, especially after they responded to his neighbor. And, come on, the guy offered to pay! So no moral hazard!

A-ha, a reader responds. He "offered." But he is clearly a deadbeat, and a leech on society, and the firefighters were right to watch as everything he owned became ash.

UPDATE: A reader writes:

Yes, he offered to pay, while his house burned. I can’t prove what would have happened, but the FD would probably have had to sue him to gain full reimbursement. Maybe they need to start carrying pre-printed contracts for the homeowners to sign quickly and obligate themselves for the full cost plus a little profit.

A man whose house is on fire will say anything to a guy with the means to put the fire out -- best not to trust him, unless you can get it in writing.

I sometimes feel bad for smart, principled conservative bloggers, because the only people worse than their peers are their readers.

posted 10-05-2010 08:42 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by heynow14:
Do you think they would have let his house burn down if he was trapped in it?
Most rural areas assess a fee after responding to emergencies, including false alarms. I guess in Tenn. thats too complicated.

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JEEZE!!.....Fire departments, EMT's, police, etc. all have overhead and operating expenses regardless of whether or not they are called upon....The fees you are talking about are over and above what they receive from taxpayer support..

The solution is to not make it voluntary...If you live in the community you should be required to pay for those services....in advance.

posted 10-05-2010 09:18 AM                  

I wonder if the guy had insurance on the house. And if he did will the insurance company cover his losses when they learn of his refusal to pay the Fire Department fee?

posted 10-05-2010 10:29 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by bjprowler:
JEEZE!!.....Fire departments, EMT's, police, etc. all have overhead and operating expenses regardless of whether or not they are called upon....The fees you are talking about are over and above what they receive from taxpayer support..

The solution is to not make it voluntary...If you live in the community you should be required to pay for those services....in advance.

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Wow, so you support increased taxes/fees. I guess your one of those cut taxes and increase fees republicans.

posted 10-05-2010 10:39 PM                  

The key words here are "essential" and "shared equally".

posted 10-06-2010 09:03 AM                  

Lib Tip # 3: Social Justice Trumps Logic: Argue every issue from a “Social Justice” or “Moral” high-ground. The Conservative will attempt to show that your ideas are unworkable, unsustainable or downright illogical. Don’t worry about any of that. Just stay on message by arguing from the moral, social justice perspective

posted 10-06-2010 09:07 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by heynow14:
When I call an ambulance they bill me later. Same could have been done in this case. To call yourself a fireman and watch someones house burn to the ground is morally wrong. It would have been a shame if a kid was trapped inside that they didn't know about. Comes a point when you have to do whats right and not say screw you over $75. But some people just don't get it.

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comes a point when you have to "man up" and pay your own bills and not expect the rest of the neighborhood to raise you. They saved the neighbors house, but he was probably a Republican and paid the fee when he got the bill. As the woman homeowner said, right on camera, "If they waived the fee last year, why couldn't they waive it this year, too". Vote Democrat, they will pay all your bills. The recession is over, change we can believe in, as long as the telepromter works and they don't have a flag pass by.

posted 10-06-2010 11:12 PM                  

Damn fine rebuttal Ed,,,,,I couldn't even try to top that one

posted 10-07-2010 07:59 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by heynow14:
Question is; if you were a fireman and it was your father/mother/brother/sister/son/daughter(s) house, and they didn't pay, would you have put it out? Yes or No?
I'm sure you guys can't/won't answer that.

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As I expected, great 'spin' by the master!

What kind of hypothetical question is that? I see it took you three hours on the job tonight, to come up with that thought. I'm disappointed in you now,,,,you are starting to weaken, lol.

IF I was a fireman on the responding unit, then yes, I would put the water to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then proceed to totally pay back the 'entire' cost of the units/firemen's time in full, for the service.

Afterwards,,,,,I'd personally put a shoe in the butt of:

my father/mother/brother/sister/son/daughter(s) for being so ignorant and cheap as not to pay the yearly fee!

posted 10-07-2010 05:08 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by heynow14:

I'm sure you guys can't/won't answer that.

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Well Robert,,,we answered you. You said we can't/won't!

Can you now 'spin' this situation to a poor person, who needs government assistance to pay their responsibilities to maintain their property? Like the lady in Florida, who was so happy BHO was elected, and thought she wouldn't have to make her house payment any longer, because BHO would take care of her

IMO,,you are so far out of touch with mainstream America, that I find it difficult to even answer your twisted (spin) questions any longer. Help us see the liberal way, lol.

posted 10-07-2010 11:04 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by ALLEY CAT:

[B]IF I was a fireman on the responding unit, then yes, I would put the water to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then proceed to totally pay back the 'entire' cost of the units/firemen's time in full, for the service.

Afterwards,,,,,I'd personally put a shoe in the butt of:

my father/mother/brother/sister/son/daughter(s) for being so ignorant and cheap as not to pay the yearly fee!

[/B]

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Yes, If I could I would attempt to put the fire out but I too would make Damn sure the Fire Department was reimbursed. But then people normally make allowances for family that you would not make to a stranger.

For example if I worked in a repair shop and a relative needed something repaired. I would make the repairs for them with parts at cost and I would perform the labor for free. That is, if my boss allowed that.

Likewise as a firefighter I would also be at the mercy of the City and/or the Fire Chief to allow myself and the other fire fighters to use the equipment to put out the fire for that relative. It can't be done by one person and not without the proper equipment.

Lib Tip # 3: Social Justice Trumps Logic: Argue every issue from a “Social Justice” or “Moral” high-ground. The Conservative will attempt to show that your ideas are unworkable, unsustainable or downright illogical. Don’t worry about any of that. Just stay on message by arguing from the moral, social justice perspective