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Author Topic:   Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
BeWare





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posted 11-10-2008 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeWare     send a private message to BeWare   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by BeWare
It's already started. Hang on.


Carolina Journal Exclusives
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs

By Karen McMahan
November 04, 2008

RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.

Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly.

The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.

Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Education and Labor, in prepared remarks for the hearing on “The Impact of the Financial Crisis on Workers’ Retirement Security,” blamed Wall Street for the financial crisis and said his committee will “strengthen and protect Americans’ 401(k)s, pensions, and other retirement plans” and the “Democratic Congress will continue to conduct this much-needed oversight on behalf of the American people.”

Currently, 401(k) plans allow Americans to invest pretax money and their employers match up to a defined percentage, which not only increases workers’ retirement savings but also reduces their annual income tax. The balances are fully inheritable, subject to income tax, meaning workers pass on their wealth to their heirs, unlike Social Security. Even when they leave an employer and go to one that doesn’t offer a 401(k) or pension, workers can transfer their balances to a qualified IRA.

Mandating Equality

Ghilarducci’s plan first appeared in a paper for the Economic Policy Institute: Agenda for Shared Prosperity on Nov. 20, 2007, in which she said GRAs will rescue the flawed American retirement income system (www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204/bp204.pdf).

The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.”

Lauding GRAs as a way to effectively increase retirement savings, Ghilarducci wrote that savings incentives are unequal for rich and poor families because tax deferrals “provide a much larger ‘carrot’ to wealthy families than to middle-class families — and none whatsoever for families too poor to owe taxes.”

GRAs would guarantee a fixed 3 percent annual rate of return, although later in her article Ghilarducci explained that participants would not “earn a 3% real return in perpetuity.” In place of tax breaks workers now receive for contributions and thus a lower tax rate, workers would receive $600 annually from the government, inflation-adjusted. For low-income workers whose annual contributions are less than $600, the government would deposit whatever amount it would take to equal the minimum $600 for all participants.

In a radio interview with Kirby Wilbur in Seattle on Oct. 27, 2008, Ghilarducci explained that her proposal doesn’t eliminate the tax breaks, rather, “I’m just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for 401(k)s and spreading — spreading the wealth.”

All workers would have 5 percent of their annual pay deducted from their paychecks and deposited to the GRA. They would still be paying Social Security and Medicare taxes, as would the employers. The GRA contribution would be shared equally by the worker and the employee. Employers no longer would be able to write off their contributions. Any capital gains would be taxable year-on-year.

Analysts point to another disturbing part of the plan. With a GRA, workers could bequeath only half of their account balances to their heirs, unlike full balances from existing 401(k) and IRA accounts. For workers who die after retiring, they could bequeath just their own contributions plus the interest but minus any benefits received and minus the employer contributions.

Another justification for Ghilarducci’s plan is to eliminate investment risk. In her testimony, Ghilarducci said, “humans often lack the foresight, discipline, and investing skills required to sustain a savings plan.” She cited the 2004 HSBC global survey on the Future of Retirement, in which she claimed that “a third of Americans wanted the government to force them to save more for retirement.”

What the survey actually reported was that 33 percent of Americans wanted the government to “enforce additional private savings,” a vastly different meaning than mandatory government-run savings. Of the four potential sources of retirement support, which were government, employer, family, and self, the majority of Americans said “self” was the most important contributor, followed by “government.” When broken out by family income, low-income U.S. households said the “government” was the most important retirement support, whereas high-income families ranked “government” last and “self” first (www.hsbc.com/retirement).

On Oct. 22, The Wall Street Journal reported that the Argentinean government had seized all private pension and retirement accounts to fund government programs and to address a ballooning deficit. Fearing an economic collapse, foreign investors quickly pulled out, forcing the Argentinean stock market to shut down several times. More than 10 years ago, nationalization of private savings sent Argentina’s economy into a long-term downward spiral.

Income and Wealth Redistribution

The majority of witness testimony during recent hearings before the House Committee on Education and Labor showed that congressional Democrats intend to address income and wealth inequality through redistribution.

On July 31, 2008, Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, testified before the subcommittee on workforce protections that “from the standpoint of equal treatment of people with different incomes, there is a fundamental flaw” in tax code incentives because they are “provided in the form of deductions, exemptions, and exclusions rather than in the form of refundable tax credits.”

Even people who don’t pay taxes should get money from the government, paid for by higher-income Americans, he said. “There is no obvious reason why lower-income taxpayers or people who do not file income taxes should get smaller incentives (or no tax incentives at all),” Greenstein said.

“Moving to refundable tax credits for promoting socially worthwhile activities would be an important step toward enhancing progressivity in the tax code in a way that would improve economic efficiency and performance at the same time,” Greenstein said, and “reducing barriers to labor organizing, preserving the real value of the minimum wage, and the other workforce security concerns . . . would contribute to an economy with less glaring and sharply widening inequality.”

When asked whether committee members seriously were considering Ghilarducci’s proposal for GSAs, Aaron Albright, press secretary for the Committee on Education and Labor, said Miller and other members were listening to all ideas.

Miller’s biggest priority has been on legislation aimed at greater transparency in 401(k)s and other retirement plan administration, specifically regarding fees, Albright said, and he sent a link to a Fox News interview of Miller on Oct. 24, 2008, to show that the congressman had not made a decision.

After repeated questions asked by Neil Cavuto of Fox News, Miller said he would not be in favor of “killing the 401(k)” or of “killing the tax advantages for 401(k)s.”

Arguing against liberal prescriptions, William Beach, director of the Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation, testified on Oct. 24 that the “roots of the current crisis are firmly planted in public policy mistakes” by the Federal Reserve and Congress. He cautioned Congress against raising taxes, increasing burdensome regulations, or withdrawing from international product or capital markets. “Congress can ill afford to repeat the awesome errors of its predecessor in the early days of the Great Depression,” Beach said.

Instead, Beach said, Congress could best address the financial crisis by making the tax reductions of 2001 and 2003 permanent, stopping dependence on demand-side stimulus, lowering the corporate profits tax, and reducing or eliminating taxes on capital gains and dividends.

Testifying before the same committee in early October, Jerry Bramlett, president and CEO of BenefitStreet, Inc., an independent 401(k) plan administrator, said one of the best ways to ensure retirement security would be to have the U.S. Department of Labor develop educational materials for workers so they could make better investment decisions, not exchange equity investments in retirement accounts for Treasury bills, as proposed in the GSAs.

Should Sen. Barack Obama win the presidency, congressional Democrats might have stronger support for their “spreading the wealth” agenda. On Oct. 27, the American Thinker posted a video of an interview with Obama on public radio station WBEZ-FM from 2001.

In the interview, Obama said, “The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society.” The Constitution says only what “the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you,” and Obama added that the Warren Court wasn’t that radical.

Although in 2001 Obama said he was not “optimistic about bringing major redistributive change through the courts,” as president, he would likely have the opportunity to appoint one or more Supreme Court justices.

“The real tragedy of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused that I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change,” Obama said.

Karen McMahan is a contributing editor of Carolina Journal.



PROWLEU

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posted 11-10-2008 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PROWLEU     send a private message to PROWLEU   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by PROWLEU
The first target of additional taxes is the imputed income from employer-paid benefit plans. Right now, they don't take taxes on them. Second target is is the pre-tax ability to save for retirement (401-K, etc.). The final straw would be nationalizing the 401-ks and IRAs. The democRATS are going to distribute the wealth incrementally starting with the above. By buying votes from the less-than-motivated among us, they will try to tax anything. Since most of their constituency doesn't pay taxes, none of them will vote against anything designed to lower taxes on the evil rich.

Change we can believe in, indeed. But keep your tires inflated, your messiah will take care of you.

Dale Beaman

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posted 11-15-2008 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale Beaman     send a private message to Dale Beaman   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Dale Beaman
This needs to be copied and pasted into an email and sent to everyone you know.

I did it last week and people are starting to get mad at just the thought of what the DemocRATS and Obama wants to do.

Spread it to everyone you know!

MDProwler



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posted 11-15-2008 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDProwler     send a private message to MDProwler   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by MDProwler
Once again another false rumor to scare the uninformed. A little basic research(it took me ten minutes) will get you the actual transcripts of what was really said at the hearing. I won't copy and paste the whole thing but will a part of it that is relevant.

Teresa Ghilarducci
WORD FOR WORD
"As Congress reacts to the modern financial order changing forever, we should
also realize that individual retirement plans based on that financial order, have also
changed forever. In the last few weeks, we’ve been confronted with older worker and
retirees’ lives being turned upside down; their panic tops-off an already existing state of
chronic anxiety about retirement futures. Much of both – the panic and anxiety - is
caused by the corrosive effects of 401(k) and 401(k) – like plans, including IRA plans.
410(k) plans have not expanded pension coverage, increase the savings national rates;
though they did add to the profits and growth of the financial sector and extracted ever
increasing tax breaks from the Treasury.
Short Term Solution to the Retirement Crises
Short term, I propose that since 401(k) accounts and the like are financial
institutions -- the bank about where 38% of the workforce can intend to save for their
retirement -- Congress let workers trade their 401(k) and 401(k) - type plan assets
(perhaps valued at mid-August prices) for a Guaranteed Retirement Account composed
of government bonds (earning a 3% return, adjusted for inflation). When the worker
collects Social Security, the Guaranteed Retirement Account will pay an inflation
adjusted annuity, based on the accumulated funds.
How would this work? Take a 55 year old who had $50,000 in his 401(k) account
in August and faces job loss and eroded assets because of the erosion of his retirement
accounts. Let him swap out the $50,000 for a guarantee of $500 per month.
The economy is probably in a recession, but a guaranteed income from his former 401(k)
removes a source of financial anxiety, and -- this is not trivial – it end fruitless
discussions with brokers and financial sales agents, who are also desperate for more fees
and are often wrong about markets."

Link to the Hearing

There is a HUGE difference between [Trade] and [confiscate]. What is proposed would be entirely voluntary. It just provides another way to protect your investment if you are nearing retirement. Another choice for your money. Options are good aren't they?
Of course none of this will probably happen but it doesn't sound so bad on the surface.


It amazes me you all believe this crap. Keep buying up those guns at inflated prices. Then cry when the prices drop again. And I keep reading posts about how the Dems are the uneducated ones.

PROWLEU

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posted 11-17-2008 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PROWLEU     send a private message to PROWLEU   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by PROWLEU
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MDProwler:

There is a HUGE difference between [Trade] and [confiscate]. What is proposed would be entirely voluntary. It just provides another way to protect your investment if you are nearing retirement. Another choice for your money. Options are good aren't they?
Of course none of this will probably happen but it doesn't sound so bad on the surface.


Horse manure! The gov't shouldn't be meddling ANYWHERE in our retirement funds. Anytime politicians think they have another source of taxes thy'll try to get them. If you don't think this sounds so bad - you need to look back and see how social security has changed from its inception to what we have today. And how is that working? This new proposal is just another democRAT wealth re-distribution boondoggle.

ALLEY CAT





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posted 11-17-2008 06:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     send a private message to ALLEY CAT   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by ALLEY CAT
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist
is that the taxidermist leaves the skin.
-Mark Twain


Talk is cheap...except when Congress does it.
-Unknown


No man's life, liberty, or property is safe
while the legislature is in session.
-Mark Twain (1866 )


In general, the art of government consists of
taking as much money as possible from
one party of the citizens to give to the other.
-Voltaire (1764)


If you think health care is expensive now,
wait until you see what it costs when it's free!
- P.J. O'Rourke


Government is the great fiction, through which everybody
endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-Frederic Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)


A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man
which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
-G. Gordon Liddy


The ultimate result of shielding men from the
effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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