posted 05-19-2016 05:45 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by John1923t:
Ball joint failure last night,I had to put baby on a flatbed, 2nd one in 34,658 miles, they will have to arrest me to get me out of that dealership today if I get any crap. I read all of the post's on the ball joint recalls last night. I am not leaving with out new steering knuckles, ball joints and brake lines.

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posted 05-19-2016 05:49 PM                  

The ball joints take a extreme beating and as soon a they get a bit dry,,,, good bye Jack. Put your head out the window while driving and look at the fender and you will know what I mean.

A ounce of prevention is better than a pound of agrivation.

posted 05-19-2016 07:48 PM                  

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Originally posted by Dfsc1:
Do they just let go with no warning signs? No creaking, crunching, rattling or noticeable movement when jacked up and wheel tugged on?

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I would say it all depends on road conditions where you live and drive.

Look to see if yours have a 'x' at the end of the serial # at the bottom of the joint. The 'x'signifies the recall has been done.

Jack it up and put a long bar under the wheel and pull up on the bar. Look for slop in the ball joint. Have someone give you a hand,,, the helper lifts up on the bar and you check for slop.

posted 05-19-2016 08:26 PM                  

Putting grease under the boot is NOT where the grease is needed. You must get it thru the bottom of the ball joint to lube the ball & socket itself. A good way to do this would be to drill a hole at the base of the ball joint and tap it out and install a zerk fitting.
Also by making holes in the boot, you are making an area for water to enter as that is why the boot is on there in the first place. To keep water & dirt out

posted 05-19-2016 08:42 PM                  

Phil, have you ever used a needle? If used correctly it does not let in water and dirt in.

posted 05-19-2016 09:44 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by John1923t:
Ball joint failure last night,I had to put baby on a flatbed, 2nd one in 34,658 miles, they will have to arrest me to get me out of that dealership today if I get any crap. I read all of the post's on the ball joint recalls last night. I am not leaving with out new steering knuckles, ball joints and brake lines.

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posted 05-24-2016 07:10 PM                  

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Originally posted by Landscape Doctor:
I would have to disagree with you Phil. The boot actually covers the joint. When you grease a jerk fitting the excess goes into the boot,, so putting grease in the boot lubes the joint in reverse. If you cut open a boot on a ball joint you can see the ball and joint. By putting grease in the boot keeps the joint lubed.

Phil, have you ever used a needle? If used correctly it does not let in water and dirt in.

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By putting grease under the boot, There is NO way for it to get down under the ball where it fits into the socket. The socket area is where the grease is needed. That is why most Ball joints have a fitting at the bottom of the ball joint as grease enters the socket area. The boot is there for a reason, to keep water & dirt from entering. You don't poke holes into it as you defeat the whole purpose of the boot. Even the smallest hole can allow water to enter. If you want to put grease under the boot, all you would have to do is lift the outer edge of the boot and grease it. NO need to poke holes in it. Yes I have several needles. They are actually made to fill bearings where the rollers ride during assembly, & to lube in tight areas. That ball and socket on the ball joint is fitted so tightly and there would be no way for grease to enter the socket area by putting grease under the boot. All you are doing is putting grease on top of the ball where it is NOT needed. If you feel like this works for you, do it your way, but you are wasting your time.

posted 05-24-2016 08:13 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by phil2237:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Landscape Doctor:
[B]I would have to disagree with you Phil. The boot actually covers the joint. When you grease a jerk fitting the excess goes into the boot,, so putting grease in the boot lubes the joint in reverse. If you cut open a boot on a ball joint you can see the ball and joint. By putting grease in the boot keeps the joint lubed.

Phil, have you ever used a needle? If used correctly it does not let in water and dirt in.

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By putting grease under the boot, There is NO way for it to get down under the ball where it fits into the socket. The socket area is where the grease is needed. That is why most Ball joints have a fitting at the bottom of the ball joint as grease enters the socket area. The boot is there for a reason, to keep water & dirt from entering. You don't poke holes into it as you defeat the whole purpose of the boot. Even the smallest hole can allow water to enter. If you want to put grease under the boot, all you would have to do is lift the outer edge of the boot and grease it. NO need to poke holes in it. Yes I have several needles. They are actually made to fill bearings where the rollers ride during assembly, & to lube in tight areas. That ball and socket on the ball joint is fitted so tightly and there would be no way for grease to enter the socket area by putting grease under the boot. All you are doing is putting grease on top of the ball where it is NOT needed. If you feel like this works for you, do it your way, but you are wasting your time.

[/B][/QUOTE]
How do you grease the ball joints. How can you tell if they are out? Is it expenses to have the changed out? Please advise have not had the Prowler too long and getting some miles on it. thanks

posted 05-24-2016 08:18 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by phil2237:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Landscape Doctor:
[B]I would have to disagree with you Phil. The boot actually covers the joint. When you grease a jerk fitting the excess goes into the boot,, so putting grease in the boot lubes the joint in reverse. If you cut open a boot on a ball joint you can see the ball and joint. By putting grease in the boot keeps the joint lubed.

Phil, have you ever used a needle? If used correctly it does not let in water and dirt in.

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By putting grease under the boot, There is NO way for it to get down under the ball where it fits into the socket. The socket area is where the grease is needed. That is why most Ball joints have a fitting at the bottom of the ball joint as grease enters the socket area. The boot is there for a reason, to keep water & dirt from entering. You don't poke holes into it as you defeat the whole purpose of the boot. Even the smallest hole can allow water to enter. If you want to put grease under the boot, all you would have to do is lift the outer edge of the boot and grease it. NO need to poke holes in it. Yes I have several needles. They are actually made to fill bearings where the rollers ride during assembly, & to lube in tight areas. That ball and socket on the ball joint is fitted so tightly and there would be no way for grease to enter the socket area by putting grease under the boot. All you are doing is putting grease on top of the ball where it is NOT needed. If you feel like this works for you, do it your way, but you are wasting your time.

[/B][/QUOTE] Anyone have any pictures? So I can grease mine. This is scary. I know what can happen going down the road and one goves completely out. Thanks syswayne1939

posted 05-24-2016 08:37 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by syswayne1939:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by phil2237:
[B] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Landscape Doctor:
[B]I would have to disagree with you Phil. The boot actually covers the joint. When you grease a jerk fitting the excess goes into the boot,, so putting grease in the boot lubes the joint in reverse. If you cut open a boot on a ball joint you can see the ball and joint. By putting grease in the boot keeps the joint lubed.
Well I look it up in my Service Manual and man that is a job for upper and lower ball joints. I just hope mine don't go out because it will cost plenty to have them replaced. If anyone has had them replaced let me know how much it set you back. Thanks syswayne1939

Phil, have you ever used a needle? If used correctly it does not let in water and dirt in.

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By putting grease under the boot, There is NO way for it to get down under the ball where it fits into the socket. The socket area is where the grease is needed. That is why most Ball joints have a fitting at the bottom of the ball joint as grease enters the socket area. The boot is there for a reason, to keep water & dirt from entering. You don't poke holes into it as you defeat the whole purpose of the boot. Even the smallest hole can allow water to enter. If you want to put grease under the boot, all you would have to do is lift the outer edge of the boot and grease it. NO need to poke holes in it. Yes I have several needles. They are actually made to fill bearings where the rollers ride during assembly, & to lube in tight areas. That ball and socket on the ball joint is fitted so tightly and there would be no way for grease to enter the socket area by putting grease under the boot. All you are doing is putting grease on top of the ball where it is NOT needed. If you feel like this works for you, do it your way, but you are wasting your time.

[/B][/QUOTE] Anyone have any pictures? So I can grease mine. This is scary. I know what can happen going down the road and one goves completely out. Thanks syswayne1939

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted 05-24-2016 08:45 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by syswayne1939:

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posted 05-24-2016 08:50 PM                  

Here is another pic with a zerk fitting. Hypothetically remove the zerk fitting and imagine putting grease into the boot if the ball joint was not serviceable. Most of the new ball joints have the cross groves that transfers the grease around the ball.

Most non serviceable grease fittings you will not be able to get the needle under the boot because of the way it is assembled.

If you are not comfortable poking a pin hole into the boot to lube a ball joint DO NOT DO IT.

I have had great luck over the years and never lost a ball joint.

Here is another,,, looks like a non serviceable ball joint. If grease was inserted into the boot the grease will work its way around the ball joint.

posted 05-24-2016 10:31 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Landscape Doctor:
Cross section of a ball joint. This pic does not have a boot but you can clearly see the ball. By putting grease in the boot lubes the ball,,, by the action of the ball joint working the ball moves thus grabbing the grease and working it around the ball and joint.

Here is another pic with a zerk fitting. Hypothetically remove the zerk fitting and imagine putting grease into the boot if the ball joint was not serviceable. Most of the new ball joints have the cross groves that transfers the grease around the ball.

Most non serviceable grease fittings you will not be able to get the needle under the boot because of the way it is assembled.

If you are not comfortable poking a pin hole into the boot to lube a ball joint DO NOT DO IT.

I have had great luck over the years and never lost a ball joint.

Here is another,,, looks like a non serviceable ball joint. If grease was inserted into the boot the grease will work its way around the ball joint.

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Look at your picture again, The grease fitting is on the bottom to lube the socket There is a reason its on the bottom. There is VERY VERY little back and forth movement in a tie rod end or Ball Joint, They turn in the socket as you turn your steering wheel, not rock back & forth, You have never had a failure because most sealed units last well over 100,000 miles. Have you had your cars that long ? I doubt it. The Prowler fails because it hammers that socket. Drive the Prowler & watch the front fender. Most cars have coils at or near the joints so they don't take a beating like the Prowler. Find a new ball joint and you will see there is no room for grease to even enter from the top. Like I posted above , do what makes you happy. From a mechanics view, you are wasting your time. Also on a sealed ball joint, there is usually a plastic ring or seal at the top of the ball just inside the socket to prevent water from entering the socket, then a boot over the top to help keep dirt & water out. Grease will not enter this area thru the seal. The seal is put there to keep the grease in the joint when it was assembled. If it wasn't sealed, the grease put in at the time of manufacturing the joint would escape. I have been a mechanic for over 42 years and have never seen ball joints fail like the Prowler. Although it would be ugly, but if a coil was mounted on the front A Arms, The joints would most likely last for a long time. I have a ball joint here that failed on a Prowler, There are no grooves in the ball to let grease in. A Sealed ball Joint means just what it says. Its sealed, don't screw with it.

posted 05-29-2016 09:21 AM                  

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Originally posted by Landscape Doctor:
Phil, do you have any factual evidence in all your years of mechanic work that a needle does not do anything or is it just a asumption? Just curious if you have tried it and you had ball joints fail because of using a needle. I have had cars well over 200k and have used a needle and never had a issue. I have worked on cars, trucks, heavy equipment, motorcycles, gas engines, diesel engines ect,ect,ect.for over 30 years.

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Do what ever makes you happy, Put 2 tubes of grease on top of each ball joint if it makes you happy. Like I stated, They are sealed from the factory. Find an old joint and you will see there is a seal at the top of the ball just under the lip of the steel casing of the joint which keeps grease in the joint when they were manufactured. If the grease can't escape, you sure wouldn't be able to get grease into the top of the joint when it is sealed. You want to put grease on top of them , Go for it. Pep Boys has grease on sale this week end at 30 % off, best to stock up on that price. When using tools, use them for what they are designed to be used for. You want to poke holes in them, be my guest. A needle is useful when used correctly and used what it is designed for. I guess a landscaper would know more than a mechanic.

posted 05-29-2016 10:04 AM                  

Back to the point at hand,,,

So 1,,, you have never done it. You answered that question beating around the bush. That's landscaper lingo Phil.