posted 09-09-2006 02:51 PM                  

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Has anyone used E10 in their Prowler's yet, and if so, have you had any problems? Do you see any benefits? I know Sunoco here on the eastcoast discontined 94 octane and now is offering 93 Octane with E10. Hess is still pure. I am worried about storage over the winter if I use the E10, as they say ethanol can corrode gas lines and destroy fuel injectors if the car isn't being used for a long period. I know ethanol increases octane and therefore may increase performance, however, there are too many "ifs". Also, gas economy is reduced by 28%. So if you're paying $3 a gal for premium mixed with E10, its really like paying about $3.99 a gal for reduced gas mileage.

This administration seems to be pushing it, but I don't see the benefit, only to large energy corporations.

posted 09-09-2006 10:55 PM                  

David Pimental, a leading Cornell University agricultural expert, has calculated that powering the average U.S. automobile for one year on ethanol (blended with gasoline) derived from corn would require 11 acres of farmland, the same space needed to grow a year's supply of food for seven people. Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion into ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make one gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTUS. Thus, 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in it. Every time you make one gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTUs. Mr. Pimentel concluded that "abusing our precious croplands to grow corn for an energy-inefficient process that yields low-grade automobile fuels amounts to unsustainable subsidized food burning". "Corn production in the U.S. erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn mines groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water. The environmental system in which corn is being produced is being rapidly degraded." "The approximately $1 billion a year in current federal and state subsidies (mainly to large corporations) for ethanol production are not the only costs to consumers, the Cornell scientist observes. Subsidized corn results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States. Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices, Pimentel says, noting: "In addition to paying tax dollars for ethanol subsidies, consumers would be paying significantly higher food prices in the marketplace."

posted 09-10-2006 12:16 AM                  

and the truth lies........???

posted 09-10-2006 10:51 AM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by FatherLarry:

Also, gas economy is reduced by 28%.

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On this point I think your confusing E10 (10% ethanol)
with the newer E85 (85% ethanol).

I've been using the E10 for years and have several cars that sit for long periods of time and have never had a problem. I also have seen no gas mileage difference.

Now if you are truely talking about E85 it does yield about 1/3 less gas mileage. E85 IS NOT APPROVED FOR THE PROWLER ENGINES!

This site lists flex fuel vehicles (E85). http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

The following off of the above site are all the Chryslers for the years that the prowler was built that can use E85. Also very few stations cary E85.

2000 - 2003

3.3L Chrysler Voyager minivan

3.3L Dodge Caravan minivan

3.3L Chrysler Town & Country minivan

1998 and 1999

3.3L Dodge Caravan minivan

3.3L Plymouth Voyager minivan

3.3L Chrysler Town & Country minivan

posted 09-10-2006 11:47 AM                  

ANSWER: Yes, with every fill-up.

A few points that come to mind while reading the above:

Around here, virtually all of the pumps are marked, "May contain up to 10% ethanol", which makes ethanol a standard component of "Regular" (as well as all other grades) of "gasoline". The legislative thrust for this was for ethanol to be a replacement for MTBE, and this has already occurred.

A side effect is that this reduces gasoline usage by 9-10% (and whatever that translates into for "foreign oil" importation) without any noticeable impact on users IF it is true that 10% ethanol is safe in any car ever produced (I THINK that was the original thrust of this thread).

Also note that if the 28% lower energy content figure is used for ethanol vice gasoline, then in a 10% mix (as we have around here) the impact is less than 1 mpg. Jumping over to E85 (I know, off-topic), the economics and prediction is that it will sell end-state for the equivalent cost/mile as gasoline (or, roughly, 25% less than gasoline).

Also note that although ethanol has a higher octane rating, this is generally lost when blending with gasoline - the blending is designed to make the final octane rating consistent with what's available now.

Also note that for a largescale introduction of ethanol into our fuel supply, corn is not seen as the longterm solution. In South America, they use sugar cane. End state is predicted to be lawn clippings . . . . wood waste . . . . food waste . . . . In fact, ANY organic waste. The btu-economics going on presently to discredit ethanol production doesn't recognize the long-term migration to more appropriate raw ingredients.

Then again, there's always biodiesel - current technology, inexpensive, renewable - and ANY diesel engine on the road today can use it without modification or fear of degradation.

Which also brings to mind that there's no single fuel end-state. Discussions such as "There's not enough tillable land in the United States for ethanol to replace ALL gasoline" is ridiculous. The end state will include an assortment of fuels (as it does today) with candidates including: gasoline; ethanol; diesel; biodiesel; hydrogen fuel cells; hydrogen ICE; solar cells; power-grid electricity; and I probably missed a few.

-GRROWL "All I ask for is an electric car with 60 mile range". (we can talk about an onboard backup generator or drawing power from the road like "slotcars", but I'm NOT talking "hybrid")

posted 09-10-2006 04:06 PM                  

inadvertently listed E85 as 10% ethanol, E85 is 85% ethanol

posted 09-11-2006 08:50 AM                  

E10 is a good product and many of you may now be using it without knowing it if you don't look at the dipenser labeling closely (most people don't).

The product itself is OK AS LONG AS IT IS HANDLED PROPERLY. Ethnaol is extremely senitive to water and the distribution of it has to be practically water free. Distributors and retailers have to do a lot of work before E10 is introduced to assure product quality. i.e. pump off tank bottoms, cleanse tanks, place additional filtration on dispensers,etc.