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Author | Topic: Dan Rathers 60 minutes exclusive appears to be a Hoax (long) |
BeWare Prowler Junkie Posts: 18511 |
posted 09-10-2004 08:38 AM
Sounds like a very strong case that the documents Dan Rather used on 60 minutes to show the the President did not meet his military commitment appear to be a Hoax. RATHERBIASED.COM UPDATE ========== Rather Stupid? Did CBS Get Duped by Hoax Memos? That may well be the case but it is becoming increasingly evident that 60 Minutes, and the Dan Rather, the reporter behind the story, may have been relying on forged documents to prove their case. Several indicators point to this conclusion including the fact that the four memoranda, which Rather said were written during the early 1970s by Bush's commanding officer Lt. Colonel Jerry Killian, are printed in a proportionally spaced type style similar to the common computer font Times New Roman. But such computer technology had not even been invented when the documents were allegedly written. This does not imply, however, that the memos could not have originated during the 1970s since IBM, the dominant player in the office equipment at the time had several years earlier invented a typewriter which allowed typists to use proportional fonts. Such machines, marketed mainly under the model name Selectric had become quite popular by the early seventies even though they were extremely expensive according to Jim Forbes, who collects the now-discontinued machines and operates a web site about them called Selectric.org. For the most part, organizations who could afford the typewriters only allowed professional typists to use them especially since they were often cumbersome to use. Non-professionals stuck to the older, less-complicated typewriters which printed in the traditional monospace fonts like Courier. As a government installation, it is quite possible that the Texas Air National Guard had a few Selectric (or its successor models) in its possession. However, examination of Bush's official records released by the Pentagon reveals that Killian and his fellow officers did not use proportional spacing typewriters (1, 2, 3, 4) for their correspondence. For its part, CBS has refused to disclose where it had obtained the controversial documents. During last night's program, Rather stated "we are told [they] were taken from Colonel Killian's personal file." Contacted by The Washington Post, Kelli Edwards, a spokesperson for 60 Minutes declined to elaborate any further. Other evidence points toward the conclusion that CBS News may have been duped. Two of the alleged memos, dated May 4, 1972 and August 18, 1973, use a font technology that was beyond the capabilities of the day. Both documents use relatively sized fonts to write out ordinal numbers, a typographical convention used to spell out numerical orderings or rankings such as "twenty-fourth." In normal English usage are often written in shorted form using the relevant number followed by an ordinal suffix. Thus "twenty-fourth" becomes 24th. The 1972 document uses the ordinal 111st and the other refers to 187th. The fact that the person who made the documents used this notation casts doubt on their authenticity since typing it out numerically with a superscript ordinal suffix was quite difficult to do on an Selectric model typewriter which required a very involved process in which the user would have to feed the paper up half a line, manually remove the device's "font ball" which was used to place characters onto the paper, replace it with a ball with a smaller-sized font, advance the page back down half a line, and then put back the original font ball. While it is conceivable that the memos' creator may have actually followed the elaborate procedure to get the perfect superscript ordinal suffix, that does not seem likely according to Gerry Kaplan, another Selectric collector who operates IBMComposer.org. "The person who produced this copy does not appear to have taken the time to properly space things out, such as 'May,1972' has no space after the comma; '(flight)IAW' has no space after the parenthesis. So, it would be hard to believe that they would take the time to produce the superscript 'th' manually. So, if no general-use typewriter existed with such keys, it is unlikely that they took the time to superscript that," Kaplan says. Theoretically, it is possible that Killian may have had access to a font ball which contained superscript-sized ordinal suffixes, but such an accessory would have been very rare. "If one had a font ball that had a superscript font, then it could be done, but as far as I know, the only common superscript font was the number set available on the Symbol balls," says Forbes. "These would be used for formal papers with footnotes, most likely. So, the short answer to your question about a letter superscript is 'No.'" The typographical case against the documents' authenticity is further undermined considering that all of the memos appear to use a font that was not in wide use on Selectric machines during the early seventies. A search of Forbes's online archive of common Selectric fonts reveals none matching typeface used in the purported Killian memos. In fact, the CBS documents' font looks much more similar to the modern-day Times New Roman. In the face of such evidence (including the fact that Killian has long since been deceased), and CBS's refusal to reveal its third-party source, it seems increasingly likely that Dan Rather's "exclusive" has turned out to be a hoax. Should that be the case, it would not be the first time that the 72-year-old anchorman has been embarrassed by reporting unconfirmed stories. In his legendary book on the 1972 presidential campaign The Boys on the Bus, author Timothy Crouse relayed how many of Rather's rivals on the White House beat resented him for his gung-ho approach to the facts. "Rather often adhered to the 'informed sources' or 'the White House announced today' formulas, but he was famous in the trade for the times when he bypassed these formulas and 'winged it' on a story. Rather would go with an item even if he didn't have it completely nailed down with verifiable facts. If a rumor sounded solid to him, if he believed it in his gut or had gotten it from a man who struck him as honest, he would let it rip. The other White House reporters hated Rather for this. They knew exactly why he got away with it: being handsome as a cowboy, Rather was a star on CBS News, and that gave him the clout he needed. They could quote all his lapses from fact, like the three times he had Ellsworth Bunker resigning, the two occasions on which he announced that J. Edgar Hoover would step down, or the time he incorrectly predicted that Nixon was about to veto an education bill." |
ALLEY CAT Prowler Junkie Posts: 36093 |
posted 09-10-2004 08:57 AM
Rich - I heard the same thing last night,,,amazing. Time for Rather to retire,,,,retire to Iraq with his friend Saddam. |
Bob Miller Prowler Junkie Posts: 4576 |
posted 09-10-2004 12:03 PM
The Friday Washington Post reported the same thing - that the documents may in fact not be the real deal. I just wish the debate centered on the economy, health care, Iraq, terrorism and a host of other relevant issues instead of this 30 and 40 year old crap! |
BeWare Prowler Junkie Posts: 18511 |
posted 09-10-2004 01:46 PM
quote: Amen |
pumpkin Prowler Junkie Posts: 7907 |
posted 09-10-2004 02:08 PM
Second that. ------------------ More 'Pumpkin' photos . . . . . More cars and other stuff New pictures in Personal Scrapbook (02/23/03) "The Prowler is not a car to go from Point A to Point B. The Prowler is the Point!" |
idive Prowler Junkie Posts: 8483 |
posted 09-10-2004 05:15 PM
Killian's son also stated that the signatures on those documents were not the signatures of his deceased father. I happened across this last night on my local news channel link while looking for a pic of various projected paths of Ivan (which I did not find). Killian's son stated that the signature on a couple of the documents looked to be his father's signature, but that the rest of the signatures were not his father's signature. |
Chromer Prowler Junkie Posts: 2723 |
posted 09-10-2004 07:54 PM
Dan Rather is a spent lefty dinosaur. Traditional big three media have lost their reign and ALL credibility. Americans demand fair and balanced news. Network advertisers...are you listening?? |
CJ Prowler Junkie Posts: 18860 |
posted 09-10-2004 07:57 PM
Is anyone besides me getting tired of hearing about past war records between the candidates??? |
Dave Mills Prowler Junkie Posts: 5419 |
posted 09-10-2004 08:07 PM
I really don't care what any of them did thirty years ago. The President was hear in town yesterday and all it did was cause traffic jams because they shut down all the roads. |
ed monahan Prowler Junkie Posts: 33595 |
posted 09-11-2004 01:30 AM
Killian's papers supposedly came from his personal files. His widow said he did not keep any personal files like that. |
Roger Prowler Junkie Posts: 310 |
posted 09-11-2004 11:15 AM
Chromer hit the nail square on the head with his Dan Rather statement. Who would believe anything coming from that bozo's lips. His credibility went down the flusher years ago. |
ed monahan Prowler Junkie Posts: 33595 |
posted 09-11-2004 02:14 PM
This morning's paper said that the signature on the bottom of the letter was signed supposedly in 1972, but the guy who "signed" it left the unit in 1971. Sounding better all the time. |
rsterling78 Prowler Junkie Posts: 286 |
posted 09-11-2004 08:00 PM
There's actually a story within this story, folks. People who keep web logs -- "bloggers" -- have lead the charge in uncovering the problems with these documents. While big, old CBS may have gotten duped, it's the Internet's citizen journalists who have done the real investigating.
quote:
quote: I know a lot of the above sounds like esoteric stuff, but the devil's in the details. Three cheers for the information age's investigative reporters. |
jforbes Prowler Junkie Posts: 120 |
posted 09-13-2004 01:34 PM
I hadn't checked POA for a while and I was surprised to see my husband's name in the first post!! He got really interested in Selectric typewriters a few years ago and started a web site called the Selectric Typewriter Museum. He's gotten so many hits in the last week that he took down the selectric portion of his web site. The really scary thing about all of this is that you just can't beleive what you read and see in the press. I think he finds it pretty humorous that his web site has been cited but no one has actually verified what the credentials of his web site are -- although CBS obviously didn't do much to verify the authenticity of the memos either.... BTW, his web site also got cited in the October issue of Hot Rod magazine. A picture of his 55 Chevy made it into the Power Tour article and his site URL was published under a listing of web sites with on-line Power Tour journals. Janet |
YellowFever unregistered Posts: 120 |
posted 09-13-2004 04:18 PM
quote:
This is just a glowing case of stupidity on the American Biased Channel's (ABC), National Biased Channel (NBC), or the Certifiably Biased Channel (CBS) reporting..... This message has been edited by YellowFever on 09-13-2004 at 04:20 PM |
rsterling78 Prowler Junkie Posts: 286 |
posted 09-13-2004 11:03 PM
CBS is trying to save face by bringing in some more "experts" to back them up. Here are some quotes from their website:
quote: Yeah. By the same token, I'm sure most current government issue word processing computers today have nearly infallible voice recognition technology based on optical nanotech processors. As a custom feature, of course.
quote: Good point. Having seen the photorealistic computer-generated battle scenes in Lord of the Rings and Attack of the Clones, I really doubt if current computer technology is powerful enough to make an "l" look like a "1".
quote: Yes, only a criminal mastermind with decades of experience in the art of forgery would have the audacity to go out of his way to toggle-off one of Microsoft Word's auto-edit functions. Are these CBS people off their rockers? |
ALLEY CAT Prowler Junkie Posts: 36093 |
posted 09-14-2004 08:11 AM
Quote: "Are these CBS people off their rockers?" From Jay Leno last night: CBS and 60 Minutes today announced that they will from now on spend 60 minutes to verify each of their stories. |
YellowFever unregistered Posts: 36093 |
posted 09-15-2004 03:59 PM
From today's WSJ: Today's New York Times has an update on the scandal over Dan Rather's use of fraudulent documents in last week's hit piece on President Bush. Oddly, the Times piece lacks a byline, but it has what may be the greatest headline ever: "Memos on Bush Are Fake but Accurate, Typist Says." Fake but accurate! If this is the New York Times' new standard of journalism, does it apply to all stories, or only the ones that seek to make President Bush look bad? |
CJ Prowler Junkie Posts: 18860 |
posted 09-15-2004 07:35 PM
quote:
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ALLEY CAT Prowler Junkie Posts: 36093 |
posted 09-15-2004 09:22 PM
I heard today that 60Minute's document expert is a guy who is a former typewriter repairman with NO certification of any kind, never had any FBI or Police Academy training, or any forensic training whatsoever
IMO, its time for Dan to hang 'em up. Its pure politics with him,,,,he'd love to see Kerry win. |
idive Prowler Junkie Posts: 8483 |
posted 09-16-2004 02:29 AM
I saw an interview tonight with the lady that CBS initially had look over the documents before the story aired. She was some sort of document pathologist well known for her work. She was emphatic that she felt the documents were false. CBS didn't like her determination, so they then took the documents to another person to look over. CBS said they wished they could prove somehow that the documents were real without revealing their sources. |
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