posted 07-02-2005 11:35 AM         

Over 30% in one year, with less than 7k miles to boot.

Seems like the only Phaetons "sold" were to factory execs.

I never quite understood VW's objective with this car, but as their prices continue to plummet, ( you can get the V8s for mid 40k) they look to be a pretty good deal.

Looks Like they have had many problems as well....
http://www.myvwlemon.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Phaeton&number=14&DaysPrune=1000&LastLogin=

posted 07-02-2005 01:40 PM         

quote:

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Originally posted by Gene:
Bought a new Cadillac DeVille (2004)46,890.00 and added simulated roof-chrome wheels-wheelopening stainless,additional 3,000.00+.Car now has 17810 miles and has a trade in value of 23,800.00,that is 50%.No wonder GM is going to HE-- in a hand basket and making offers like we will sell you a car for what employes pay and in two of adds I've seen they show two big wheels of GM,like they have to pay for demo's.

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posted 07-02-2005 03:39 PM         

Well not all the owners are VW execs. Here's a pic of mine ... I guess I'm just a sucker for a hand built car.

Your data on resale is dead on. VW over-produced in North America. Now in Europe it's a different story, sales have picked up to 20% of it's market share. VW has committed to cutting producion here which will help re-sale value, but not in the near future. They had to dump several 04's as they had way to much inventory with large cash insentives. At least mine was in that group.

If you hear anything about the Bentley Flying Spur, take a close look at it. It's a duplicate of the Phaeton W 12 without the turbo chargers. That starts the model tear at $160k+. I wonder what the resale will be like on those?

Also, have you seen that Mercedes is giving up to $50k on Maybachs? And as Gene pointed out, the over production of slow selling American Name Plates is killing their resale. Not sure what the answer is ...

One more thing. Take the Acura NSX. Just a few years aog, it was in the same category as the resale values listed here. Acura (Honda) cut production to less than 300 a year here in the US. Now it's on the best side of the re-sale value list typically listed as top.

posted 07-02-2005 11:43 PM         

Volkswagen Phaeton -- The conventional excuse for the Phaeton's dismal sales is that no one would pay $70,000-plus for a VW. But the Phaeton's larger handicap is that it can't claim luxury-class leadership -- not in design, power, technology or price. It's blandly styled, its performance is hamstrung by a half-ton weight penalty vs. some rivals, and its projected resale value is worst-in-class.

Ford Five Hundred -- When the best you can say about a car is that it's got a really big trunk and it's not very expensive, that's a problem. Meet the new Ford Five Hundred. The exterior is a blah knockoff of a VW Passat, the cabin nondescript. Plus, the designers of this Taurus replacement forgot to replace the engine: Its old 203-horse V-6 is weak and noisy. Ford already plans to "readjust" production.

Pontiac GTO --

A beefy Corvette V-8. Check. A decent (for GM) interior, rear-wheel drive, and competent handling. So far, so good. But then Pontiac wrapped its would-be hottie in a body that looks more like a Chevy Cavalier than its namesake, the '60s muscle car you dreamed of owning. No performance automobile in years has turned fewer heads or opened fewer wallets. Top of page

posted 07-03-2005 12:15 AM         

I don't understand you lot. Why aren't you buying VW Phaetons? In commercial terms, as we all know, it's a disaster, but in engineering terms? God, if there is a handful of cars as good as this around right now, I'd be surprised. Yet last time I looked, you were buying three, same-under-the-skin Bentley Continentals for every one Phaeton. Well, will this shock you in to action? You can now buy three Phaetons for the price of the somewhat ubiquitous Continental.

A fiver under £37,000 will secure you a slice of über-engineering. The deal secures you a V6 Phaeton with the latest, anything but bog- standard 225bhp, three-litre V6 turbodiesel. And that's complete with leather, satnav, xenon, 12-way adjustable front seats, adjustable damping control, an audio system that would not disgrace your home and that remarkable four-zone 'draughtless' air conditioning.

But we want a sense of value, quality and engineering, you might say; like an Audi (£47k-plus for a similar A8), a BMW (£49k - and Sevens don't do all-wheel drive) or a Merc (£51k and the S is going to be replaced next year...)

Like a Phaeton, in fact, only the Phaeton no longer feels like a German car, so strong is the stench of failure that follows it around. In case you've forgotten, the Phaeton has two problems; apparently, people who drive Phaetons but don't buy them believe they'll be embarrassed when they thrash them; people who buy Phaetons but don't drive them believe they'll be embarrassed when their drivers' park them. Apparently.

But why do we care that a limo won't corner like a Lotus and what back-seat passengers of 7-Series, S-Classes and XJs think? Their social form is hardly flawless. Isn't a big car a big statement and very little else? And the Phaeton, in this latest, insanely-great six-litre W12 'almost-a-Bentley'-engined flagship example, makes a simple statement; I appreciate engineering and technology above all else. I don't need a label to tell me that a car is handsome or that its interior is a thing of quality. And best of all; I'm not hung up on a 20th century notions of class. As Apple founder, Steve Jobs, says; "Why join the navy, when you can become a pirate?"

Personally I think a Phaeton in black is one hell of a statement; fast, a really comfortable ride and an interior, like the Swiss watch on your wrist, that just reeks of engineering, craft and sheer application. And if enough of you go and buy one now, the residual values might even haul themselves off the floor, meaning you'll no longer be able to buy a low mileage W12 Phaeton for this price either.

Michael Harvey

posted 07-03-2005 12:17 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by Ed W.:
[B]Take the Acura NSX.

Now THAT is an incredible car ![/B]

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I did ...

posted 07-05-2005 11:13 AM         

When I spend $90,000 on a car it will never be on one that has no style! You can say that it is the same car as the Bentley, but they don't look the same. You can say you don't drive a car based on what others think of your car, but you drive a Prowler, the most looked at car on the road anywhere!

When I spend 90k on a car I want 90k service, (Bentley has that) and you will not get that at a VW dealership. Each dealership only has on guy on staff to even work on the car. VW has a very poor rep. in the auto industry in Quality and Service.

http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000009.html

If I were in a parking lot I would pass this car by thinking it was a 30k Passat.

Here they are in the News again..

Consumer Affairs:
Volkswagen comes and goes. Thanks to some very creative styling, it had been in one of its "up" periods but the company's disgraceful refusal to deal with defective ignition coils in half a million of its cars should put VW back on the blacklist for anyone concerned with auto safety and corporate responsibility. Nor has its delayed admission of engine sludge problems done much to win it any plaudits.

Automan has some advice -- but scant consolation -- for VW owners.

Patrick of Harwich MA (5/19/05):
Thanks to the fabulous engineering at Volkswagen USA, my 2001 VW Jetta 1.8 Turbo has been in and out of VW dealerships like salmon up the stream during mating season. As an honest man or woman you are lost to these salesmen and corporate (types) at VW. I have seen a water pump recently kill the timing belt and the cylinder head, some 15,000 miles before the water pump should ever have to be replaced. I've seen the all-too-often problems of the repeated check engine light, windows, and anything but expected performance out of my VW Jetta.

I used to say I love my VW, now all I can say is I hate it and I hate the company. Advice: never, ever, buy a VW. Why pay $20,000 to drive one off the lot plus another $10,000 grand to "service" it before it reaches 50,000 miles? To all those folks out there in my predicament, and I know there are thousands of you, my heart goes out to each and every one of you.

Or in the case of the Phaeton 90k to drive it off the lot and who knows how much to fix it?? If VW wanted to do a car like this they should have created an up brand like Honda/Acura. Oh that's right they already have that in Audi... good lets let them build the upscale cars.

The car has done soo poor that....
Hans Georg Martius, head of the shareholder lobby group SdK, demanded that if VW's luxury segment does not achieve a turnaround ASAP it will be cancelled in the next three years.

http://www.forbes.com/columnists/columnists/2004/10/26/cz_jf_1026flint.html

It seems you are the minority when it comes to what the luxury public wants.

JMO and many other as well.

By the way I LOVE YOUR NSX!!!! That is a sweet ride!

Troy

posted 07-05-2005 12:10 PM         

quote:

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Originally posted by Troy Gaston:
It seems you are the minority when it comes to what the luxury public wants.

JMO and many other as well.

By the way I LOVE YOUR NSX!!!! That is a sweet ride!

Troy

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Troy,

Not really arguing the point on if the Phaeton is a popular vehicle. I conceded several points in my first post.

But I will say that for every negative article you can find on anything, you can almost always find an equally positive article. That was my point with the second post. We could easily find lemon horror stories on any vehicle.