posted 01-16-2005 08:47 AM         

NOT something you want to see out the front of your locomotive while driving a train at 60-70 MPH, trust me!

posted 01-16-2005 09:18 AM         

We have had lots of rain in Phoenix the past month, but that doesn't do us any good. Its the rain/snow in our northern Az mountains which supply our lakes with our needed water supply and power generation.

posted 01-17-2005 07:51 AM         

Emergency braking only adds a mere 13% additional braking force... so it's more for 'show' than anything in my opinion. If, for example it takes an even 6000 ft to stop "X" train, then it would only reduce it by 1000 ft to be 5000 ft.

Many variations to this... as Ed said, based on weight, type of equipment, loads/empties, (unit trains, solid coal trains, etc, stop much faster than mixed trains as they have uniform equipment generally much newer). Grade is a factor, but when 'going into big hole' stopping fast, it is not much of a factor at all.

With the laws of physics being what they are (a body in motion tends to stay in motion...ie Cookie)... to me, when you're 'riding it out' on a moving train, stopping in either 5000 or 6000 is kind of a moot point. Whatever happened that caused you to 'dump it' has already happened, now it's just a matter of how far you go, how far you drag along what you hit, etc.

No seat belts..... hang on to whatever you can grab, and just wait it out.

Duck, if you feel the need, but the glass in a loco is "Part 223 Glazing material"... a 'bullet-resistant' (hate to say bulletproof!) product, that also is supposed to shatter on impact.... industry has come a long way in that area..

While I have never seen 'up close and personal from the front window' anything of this magnitude, I once ran over a piece of track down in Texas back in about 78 or so, that the train behind me came up to and had a 'sun kink' the track had moved sideways several feet AFTER my train had gone over it.... not an uncommon occurrence where it gets 'extremely warm', Texas, AZ, NM etc.

Insofar as 'burying stuff', I'm sure that could easily be true, though personally cant say for that particular incident. I have seen/heard of such things several times in my 30+years 'behind the throttle'. The most astounding to me was back in the very early 70s, there was to be a "Directors Special"... a passenger train made up entirely of Company owned "business cars"... which was to hold the Board of Directors for a special train trip which was to traverse the mainline of the entire rail system which I worked for then... (we'll leave the name of the RR out)... anyway... a few days before this Directors Special hit the road, with much fanfare and advance planning as long as 6-8 months prior to the actual journey... a few days before they ran it, a train derailment occurred in central Kansas, which included turning the engines over on their side, two brand new locos that probably back then would have cost in the area of 1/2 mil each....
They dug a hole and buried them right there on the right-of-way rather than have the Board of Directors see them as they went by.
THEN went back and dug them out again!
Talk about a huge waste of money, but it's all about "Image" sometimes ....

Sorry so long getting back to this one... been busy... and thanks Ed for the 'headsup'

posted 01-17-2005 08:16 AM         

Oh... and a locomotive these days can be upwards of 400,000 to 500,000 pounds EACH, though most still weigh in at "only" 250,000 or so. I came in this morning on a train with 4 locos and 128 cars... 10,600 Tons of train, plus another 960 tons of locos. a typical train for me.

In a 'planned' stop situation, for example when yarding my train at the completion of my trip, I am running at 50 mph a couple of miles out of the station when I begin to take action to reduce the speed of my train. The throttle is backed off, but usually with a 'slight pull' still in there to keep the train 'stretched' (so the movement of cars within the train (slack action) is kept to a minimum to reduce damage to lading and control the train better, and air brakes are applied. There are air reservoirs on each car in a train, and that pressure is controlled from a locomotive through the hose that you see dangling between the cars. By reducing the pressure in the trainline hose, you cause brakes to be applied at each car.
So... a couple of miles out I begin to reduce throttle, apply brakes, in increments, to bring the train in at what we all hope is a nice controlled speed. LOL

Once you get the hang of it, it really aint that tough. Kinda like drivin a car?!!? Only different.

Some of the developments which continue to be made in the industry include allowing the brakes to be applied from EACH end of a train.....
Instead of a caboose these days, all the trains you see have a small reflective box hanging on the rear, usually with a red flashing light .... you've seen 'em.
Those are what we call "FRED"s.... Federal Rear End Device .. (dont go there A/C!)... anyway... that has a radio transmitter/receive on it, which has an 'address code' which you dial into from the loco when a train is made up. This allows for the radio signal to be broadcast instantaneously to the rear of the train when a reduction in air pressure is desired. It is REQUIRED by law that each train in North America (Canada and US) carrying over 3,000 tons (not much by todays trains) be equipped with a 2-way fred. This allows for train emergency applications to occur from both ends. THIS reduces stopping speed even more.... but only in emergency situations.
Within the last couple of years, they are beginning to expand the capability of this device to include "Service" (NONemergency) applications as well ... which will seriously reduce 'normal' stopping distances.
The ability of a train to stop is not so much the ability of the brake shoes, or even the weight of the train, but the 'signal' sent via train air line to get to the rear of the train takes sooooooooooooo long! Train airflow travels at the rate of only about 600 feet per second. In emergency this rate is increased to over 1000 ft per second. If your train is over 6000 feet long, you can see that it takes 10 seconds for the last car to even 'get the message' to begin to set up the brakes! EEEK!

You can imagine the 'in-train forces' of several million pounds moving at 50 mph when the head-end of the train is wanting to stop and brakes are being applied, while it's 10 seconds or longer, and the rearend is still wanting to go 50 mph!

quote:

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Originally posted by GenoTex:
PLEASE respect this the next time you think about 'beating a train'... it aint worth it....

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I had always heard that if the train can see you, it really is too late for them to stop in time. That is why every time you see a video of a car getting t-boned by a train it looks like they haven't even applied the brakes yet. They have but, there is just too much forward momentum to stop (or even appear to be slowing down).

You are definitely NOT going to win against 450,000 lbs. yet, folks try to every day.....

posted 01-17-2005 07:55 PM         

A train typically is 8,000-16,000 TONS.... 16,000,000 to 32 million pounds... rolling at you at whatever speed...

Here's a very good analogy that is used in "Driving" classes, at schools,etc.

The weight ratio of an automobile running over an empty soda can........ is the same as a train hitting a car.

posted 01-17-2005 07:58 PM         

it's too late to react to it.

posted 01-17-2005 08:03 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by GenoTex:
Continued reading... if you like! or not... lol...

Oh... and a locomotive these days can be upwards of 400,000 to 500,000 pounds EACH, though most still weigh in at "only" 250,000 or so. I came in this morning on a train with 4 locos and 128 cars... 10,600 Tons of train, plus another 960 tons of locos. a typical train for me.

In a 'planned' stop situation, for example when yarding my train at the completion of my trip, I am running at 50 mph a couple of miles out of the station when I begin to take action to reduce the speed of my train. The throttle is backed off, but usually with a 'slight pull' still in there to keep the train 'stretched' (so the movement of cars within the train (slack action) is kept to a minimum to reduce damage to lading and control the train better, and air brakes are applied. There are air reservoirs on each car in a train, and that pressure is controlled from a locomotive through the hose that you see dangling between the cars. By reducing the pressure in the trainline hose, you cause brakes to be applied at each car.
So... a couple of miles out I begin to reduce throttle, apply brakes, in increments, to bring the train in at what we all hope is a nice controlled speed. LOL

Once you get the hang of it, it really aint that tough. Kinda like drivin a car?!!? Only different.

Some of the developments which continue to be made in the industry include allowing the brakes to be applied from EACH end of a train.....
Instead of a caboose these days, all the trains you see have a small reflective box hanging on the rear, usually with a red flashing light .... you've seen 'em.
Those are what we call "FRED"s.... Federal Rear End Device .. (dont go there A/C!)... anyway... that has a radio transmitter/receive on it, which has an 'address code' which you dial into from the loco when a train is made up. This allows for the radio signal to be broadcast instantaneously to the rear of the train when a reduction in air pressure is desired. It is REQUIRED by law that each train in North America (Canada and US) carrying over 3,000 tons (not much by todays trains) be equipped with a 2-way fred. This allows for train emergency applications to occur from both ends. THIS reduces stopping speed even more.... but only in emergency situations.
Within the last couple of years, they are beginning to expand the capability of this device to include "Service" (NONemergency) applications as well ... which will seriously reduce 'normal' stopping distances.
The ability of a train to stop is not so much the ability of the brake shoes, or even the weight of the train, but the 'signal' sent via train air line to get to the rear of the train takes sooooooooooooo long! Train airflow travels at the rate of only about 600 feet per second. In emergency this rate is increased to over 1000 ft per second. If your train is over 6000 feet long, you can see that it takes 10 seconds for the last car to even 'get the message' to begin to set up the brakes! EEEK!

You can imagine the 'in-train forces' of several million pounds moving at 50 mph when the head-end of the train is wanting to stop and brakes are being applied, while it's 10 seconds or longer, and the rearend is still wanting to go 50 mph!

By allowing for the signal to come from both head/rear at the same time and meet in the middle, can seriously reduce stopping distance.
The 'next step' which is being implemented 'ever-so-slowly' in the railroad industry (BECAUSE you have to retro-fit every railroad car out there..) but they are workin' on it... is to have this same 'radio' transmission on EACH car in a train... so that when the 'signal' is given, ALL cars immediately apply brakes. They call it "EAB" Electronic Air Braking.... all cars built since a couple/3-4-5 years ago or so are required to be built with the capability.. but if ALL cars in your train are not equipped then NONE will work... a good thing actually as you wouldnt want just some (and an unknown quantity at that) to work that way.
That will take time... years.... to actually evolve and become the standard. Once it does, it doesnt take much 'vision' to see that this will lead to 'unmanned' trains.... no need.. they will all be remote / satellite controlled.
But that's another story!

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posted 01-17-2005 11:20 PM         

Rip Van Jan... we called one of our 'sleepyhead' engineers down south.... he was famous for catnappin' !

(Be careful what ya ask for Chromer!)

Here is a rare pic of RipVanJan when he was actually awake at the throttle!... Then one of myself doing an impersonation of Ed (before I even knew who Ed was!) LOL

posted 01-17-2005 11:31 PM         

RIP VAN JAN (Hudson) at his finest!

posted 01-18-2005 05:01 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by GenoTex:

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"...Geno..you havn't aged a bit??..."