posted 05-09-2001 02:03 PM         

I think that the members here are fortunate that Mike and company has put this site up out of their own pocket, it's just the type of people they are. If the average person had done this, there would be a membership charge to cover the costs for sure.

I don't think any of us have a problem paying to be a member of an organized group such as the Prowler owners. I just hate to see the infighting that causes splits between a great bunch of people who just want to get together and enjoy.

I too, wish Tom all the best in his attempt to get things back on the road again. Time will tell..

My 2 cents..

posted 05-09-2001 02:52 PM         

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Larry Salzman
Call 911 - there is a Prowler in my garage....

posted 05-09-2001 03:59 PM         

Club insurance policies usally protect the club from a lawsuit. Each individual is on their own... At least that is the way it is with most of the local clubs I belong too....

For example, if the club sponsored a cruise night at Wallmart or Sonic & someone tripped & fell while they were looking at your Prowler & they than felt obligated to sue... They would sue Walmart, Sonic, you & the club & probably whomever maintains the parking lot... Our local club insurances cover the club & not the individual... Just the state we live in....

I'm not aware of any of our club policies covering individuals. This insurance is very inexpensive & is required by most businesses where we host or sponsor car shows & cruise nights...

posted 05-09-2001 11:10 PM         

This site is GREAT. I personally have benefited greatly from it. And you will never be able to please all the people all the time (but ya can't fool mom). No wait, that's another saying. And we all are very fortunate to have people that love this car enough to give up their time and money to give us this site (and the other site).

I will have to say what personally cracks me up the most about this whole thing is there are some people who complain about $50.00 spent a year ago, and what they got for it. Then have no problem spending hundreds, even thousands of dollars on their car for modifications. It's obviously not about the money. If it was then you wouldn't own this car. Because for most of us this is not our daily driver. So lets get over it already.

It doesn't matter what web site it is, or whose club it is. Prowler, Viper, PT Cruiser, when you start to get this many people together this is what will happen. This person said that, he/she did this. It's inevitable. No matter how well run, or who's running it there will be people who don't get along with each other. Let's just move on and have fun. Dues or no dues, who cares. It's not going to break me. I personally could care less which site I go to. We have all said it, it's just about having fun with the car and the people we meet because of it.

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Bob H.

posted 05-10-2001 12:35 AM         

You stated that the point of turning over the PPC to the members was to bring the two sites together somehow. I certainly have no objection with Prowler owners from both sites attending events together.......that has been going on for quite some time now. The POA has never made itself exclusive to only their members. On the other hand, that did seem to be the practice at PPC. As a case in point, that issue is what got Carol and me in trouble with the PPC. Carol and I were hosting a Woodward Dream Cruise event as Prowler owners, not members of any club. Nowell, was insisting that we limit it to ONLY PPC members. This was the sort of behavior that was disturbing. One person arbitrarily making a decision that would affect an entire group of people. It did not seem right to us that we should not allow other Prowler owners just because they were not members of the PPC.

I am not doubting that Tom's intentions are honorable. I would like to know, however, who is making a decision for all of us that both sites should be one? You say that "It's just about having fun with the car." I truly believe that attitude has always existed at the POA. We do not have to worry about being governed by officers and rules, we only have to worry about where our next event is and if we are going to be able to make it!! Our main focus has always been about meeting other people and having fun with our cars. I don't believe that it existed at the PPC. It can't when the issue is profit. Someone else posted that it doesn't matter whether there are one, two, or three sites. I agree, as many clubs attend each other's events. Two Prowler groups can exist separately, but still co-exist. You are correct in your statement that when you have a large group of people, not everyone will get along... it's human nature. Nor will everyone agree as to how a club or association should be run. All the more reason for more than one club. It allows everyone to be able to choose a group that better suits their own philosophies and needs. Personally, I don't feel it necessary to have a structured club where you need to have officers. It always leads to politics, egos, and hard feelings. Who needs it!? Magazines don't matter, either. Web sites provide the same medium as a magazine does. You just don't have to store them in boxes for the next 25 years!!

With regard to the Dream Cruise last year. Please keep in mind that there were a lot of us who had been treated very badly by the management of the PPC. Our group had only been in existence about a month. Yes, there were still bad feelings between the groups, but in time we came to the realization that by continuing to harbor those feelings, we were hurting ourselves as well. I, personally, tried to make Tom feel welcome at the event, as it was obvious that he was uncomfortable. Carol and I tried very hard to keep things on an even keel so that everyone could enjoy the event. Speaking only for myself, I took a great deal of bashing from two particular people during my time with the PPC . They attempted to publicly ridicule my husband and me, among other things. This is not the sort of group I choose to belong to and that is why I left. If Mike and Tony had not started this site and this group, I wouldn't belong to any Prowler group. I thank them again for their generosity and making a place where I could enjoy my Prowler without fear of reprisal.

You are right about this not being about the money (your statement about people complaining about not getting their $50 worth). It was really about fulfilling promises, commitments and expectations. It was about the lack of integrity.

Speaking only for myself, the issue now is that I do not want anyone making a decision for me and telling me that this is the way it should be. I do not want to be under a governing body that will tell me what I can and cannot do or how I should do it. I've had one mother in my lifetime and that was enough!!! LOL! What I am saying is that there should be choices for all of us. We should not be limited to one. If the two groups continue to exist separately, then my choice will continue as it is now. If the choice narrows to one, then I will have to make a decision, but I will be the one to make it.

I respect your thoughts and feelings, Bob, and thanks again everyone for listening to mine!

posted 05-10-2001 12:37 AM         

As for the cost of membership fee at PPC, I gladly paid the $69. Then finding out that the other locals here had also paid and recieved NOTHING from New Jersey, woke me up real fast. I waited five to six weeks, and asked when my new members kit was coming. I was sent a password to chat room. I further asked about the above kit, and was lied to = soon, next shipment, waiting for this or that, mailed two days ago, etc. ALL BS! Then the crap about spending a ton of money to go to Disney World, give me a break, was not going to pay for the top two execs to have a free trip at the memberships' expense and said so. Was I out of line? We seen how that free vacation worked out for them, didn't we? I asked, and got my membership fee back - most of the rest didn't. My point is if I'm going to be lied to, I will not belong to or associate with any such group, period.

Prowleronline and the POA has been a great success, and I'm proud to show its' decals and colors. I do not demand the Arizona owners to visit this website. I make sure they know it exists, and its for them to benefit their experience as a Prowler owner. They are encouraged to join our cruise events whether or not they ever visit the website or register here. I'm sure most of the Arizona owners do visit the website, purchase vendor products, and benefit from its existance. I value the friendships I have made from the website, and will continue to promote its growth. Loyality has its rewards - mine has been obtained with all my new friends.

About six cents worth...........

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Larry Salzman
Call 911 - there is a Prowler in my garage....

posted 05-10-2001 01:48 AM         

All these wonderful words, so eloquent.

Bob, I belive what you said is true for sure. I was around on both sites back then, I saw the posts, the attacks, yes from members on this site also. The first month in existence all there was on here was bashing. And I sure as heck found it very distasteful. Seems like some forgot that.

But the truth is;

S#$& happens, it always will. People make mistakes, and more will be made in the future, by all I'm sure. Bottom line is, we need to get over it.

This place seems to be starting to resemble another site of not to long ago, JOMO,, If I didn't know better, (or do I), I'd say it's happening again.

It's sad.

Words like honesty, integrity are too easily thrown about here I feel. People seem to think these are labels that are permanent, there not, they are earned daily, by each of us.

We have a chance to have;
A. a lager, single club
B. another club that quite possibly will be rid of bad feelings and resentments of the past, and also add positively to this one.

Either way we win don't we? Are we afraid of something new??

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posted 05-10-2001 06:20 AM         

I hope that you don't view my comments on this thread as bashing. That is not my intent at all, and I am sorry to all if that is the perception.

posted 05-10-2001 10:37 AM         

First off, I stated that I would prefer to see everything under one roof. What I meant by that was to let the PPC dissolve and for it's members to join us at POA. I've previously spoken with Tom Kalski and told him my feelings on this matter.

Secondly, Bob Halloran stated that Tom had a desire to merge the clubs. Not to contradict what Bob said but please remember that these words did not com from Tom Kalski directly. There may be a chance of a misunderstanding.

Third and most important,,,Tom Kalski has never publicly stated that he is planning any merger efforts at all.

I think it will be in everyone's best interest to quit the speculation and rumors,,,wait for the PPC to find it's new direction,,,then make INFORMED decisions regarding this matter.

When or if there are ever any plans to merge the sites, I feel that the first people to post regarding the merger should be the people that own the sites concerned. These sites are their property to do as they wish with them.

Let's put an end to the rumors and second guessing that has been going on for the last few days. I feel that we are again driving some unintentional wedges between the Prowler Owners that visit this site. Nowell's PPC is dead, let's wait and see what Tom Kalski can make from the rubble.
Good luck and best wishes Tom!

posted 05-10-2001 11:26 AM         

Looks like your close to a T shirt Larry,, or another hat,,

posted 05-10-2001 11:50 AM         

Hey, Larry, let's go cruisin'....how long would it take you to get to Indy!!!???

Just wanted to give you one more post toward the prize of your choice!!!

posted 05-10-2001 12:33 PM         

I do hope Tom is not mad at me. He hasn't returned my call. Again, maybe both parties are sitting back and reading these posts to decide what if anything to do. I do feel there ws good conversation here and no one got all upset. That is certainly a great sign. So let us drop this subject until the involved parties want to tell us something.

posted 05-10-2001 03:23 PM         

LeCat,
The insurance, release of liability or waiver thing is very important to me and others as well. For the time being though, I will continue to plan events and take my chances. I don't want to make people feel unwelcome at any of our events.

posted 05-10-2001 03:45 PM         

Bob, you are right. No one is mad at anyone with regard to this thread.....not at my end, anyway!! Everyone should always feel free to contribute to this site any time without fear of repercussion. We are all adults (well, maybe not Ed and Larry S!!) and should be able to handle all situations. Thank you for contributing your thoughts and feelings on the subject. How else can all of us make informed decisions on anything if there is only one opinion?

Hope this also helps you get that windshield banner, Larry!

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CJ - 1999 Black
Matching Prowler Trailer
Stock / Classic / Beautiful

posted 05-11-2001 09:14 AM         

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Larry Salzman
Call 911 - there is a Prowler in my garage....