Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only.
  ProwlerOnline, Plymouth/Chrysler Prowler Discussion Forum
  Off Topic
  When are Americans Going to Wake Up? (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
This topic was originally posted in this forum: Tires, Rims Discusssion
Author Topic:   When are Americans Going to Wake Up?
RPL
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 3448
From: Rochester Hills, MI
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RPL     
I stay abreast of the auto industry and read a lot of news. Every Wednesday I read Peter Delorenzo's AutoExtemist.com. While I don't always agree with Peter's positions, I respect his opinions. Here's one from todays issue and it made my blood boil! Right on Peter!!!

"Toyota. Toyota turned in a record quarterly profit for the end of December, an increase of 34.1 percent over the previous year. Toyota made 398 billion yen ($3.4 billion) in the quarter on record sales. The New York Times reported that "'Toyota is taking advantage of the currency effect,' Kioyohide Nagata, senior fund manager at Invesco Asset Management Japan. This currency fluctuation, he said, is helping Toyota pay for its record $12 billion capital expenditure budget this year." The artificially weakened yen fell to 117 yen to the dollar, from 106 yen to the dollar during the October-to-December quarter. The Times also reported that "Currency depreciation added $1.1 billion to Toyota's operating profits of $4.1 billion for the period." And, "According to analysts' estimates here, Toyota's annual operating profit gains about $170 million for every drop of 1 yen in the value of the currency against the dollar. Likewise, in the last year, Toyota's market value rose by 50 percent, to about $186 billion, making Toyota the world's 12th-largest company by that measure, according to Bloomberg News." Last week, we urged the politicos in Washington to wake up to the stark reality of what's happening in world currency markets. Toyota's momentum isn't just due to being smart or building great products. A large (and growing) reason for their success is a direct result of their exploitation of every advantage provided to them by the Japanese government's officially sanctioned currency manipulation practices."

Hello Washington, are you listening? How long are we as citizens going to continue to put up with throwing our great manufacturing industries to the wolves? Think back on the great industries: shoes, ship building, textiles, steel and now the auto industry. I sure hope that Wal Mart raises their hourly pay and starts offering medical benefits. There's not much left here folks.

Just my opinion.

Dustis
unregistered

Posts: 3448
From: Rochester Hills, MI
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 10:17 AM           
Very sad .......but true


Wayne Finch
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4011
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: SEP 2000

posted 02-08-2006 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wayne Finch     
Unfortunately, the US dollar has weakened against every major currency over the past couple of years and it hasn't helped the US economy very much. The other problem with a weakening US dollar, is that it puts pressure on every other economy creating a global slowdown.

As I have mentioned on the boards before, I am shocked with all the anti-outsourcing rhetoric, that Americans don't "buy American". And the profits from a US built Toyota still end up in Japan so I do not view that as "buy American"


The major problems for the US are:

- major dependance on foreign oil
- huge trading deficit
- massive individual debt (household debt in the US exceeds government debt)
- potential housing bubble deflation which could in turn cause mortgage defaults and a banking crisis (remember Savings & Loan companies)


WildCat
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 6862
From: Just north of Louisville
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WildCat     
Bob, here is something you might be interested in knowing.

The toll road that goes across northern Indiana is being concidered to be leased to a company that also leases the famed toll road in Canada that you love so much. Our Govoner claims that the 96 Million they took in last year is at a loss. This company is offering 3.85 BILLION (UP FRONT) dollars for a 75 year lease. I read they expect to make 12% profit.........what is this going to do for northern Indiana? (The govenor wants to use the money in other areas of Indiana)

The auto industry goes back a long way. Chrysler was thinking of buying the Western Electric (across the street from the electrical plant they owned with tunnel under Shadeland ave that connected the 2 plants power houses) building here in Indy in the early 80's to build the mini van. Because Reagan would not limit the imports they choose not to make the investment here and used the St. Louis plant. Had this happened I would still be working for Chrysler and be able to retire in a few months.

WE ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE and the people that we elected are the ones that have helped get us there

I hear people complain about the unions as the reason the auto industry is in the shape it is in. In the 40's nearly 60% of the United States work force was unionized, I have not seen current figures but a few years back it was about 13%. The US would not have the benefits and income it has enjoyed for many years if not for our GREAT GRANDFATHERS, GRANDFATHERS, FATHERS AND MOTHERS that stood up to the big corporations and demanded a better way of life.

We are being taxed to death and sold down the river by the goverment and big business that is selling us out.

We need to unite again and take back our country.

Worker need to put PRIDE back into their work

CEO's of companies need to think of the company before their personal greed

The Goverment needs to think about the future generations that will have to live with what they have done

It is so hard to know whare something comes from these days. My Dodge Truck was built in Mexico, Sue's mini van was built in Canada, My Honda GOLDWING was built in Ohio.

The goverment is giving BIG tax incentives for the companies to come here and start up, no wonder they make such BIG PROFITS.

If a company can pay 3.85 BILLION dollars and make a profit, how will they do this? when the state claims they are losing money. The state has not raised the toll rate since 1985. Why has one of our Billionaies not stepped up to lease the road? Who will look good now with 3.85 BILLION DOLLARS that would have looked bad with a tool rate increase? How fast do you think they will double the cost of the tolls and our elected officals will say, "It's not us raising the rate"?

I know there will be people that do not agree with my thoughts, I'm glad BOB brought this up and I just had to get off my chest what I was thinking while I was at it.

quincy
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 1635
From: Utica, Michigan, USA
Registered: MAY 2004

posted 02-08-2006 10:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quincy     
WOW! Well said RPL and Wildcat! To add more insult to injury the Chinese are buying up all the oil futures. Soon they will have controlling rights, and tell the USA how much oil we are allotted each day! I am a 22 year salaried engineer with GM, and after yesterdays announcement will wind up working until death! My new pension is now $430.00 a month.


Tytanium-K
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 3017
From: Sweet Home Northern Bama, USA
Registered: JUL 2004

posted 02-08-2006 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tytanium-K     
OK, color me ignorant--but--BUT...all of this just didn't spring up a short time ago--did it? I mean, hasn't it been a gradual-BUT-STEADY take-over since the time most of us can remember back to [I'm 61]? It's not a mystery! It wasn't sudden! Don't we ALL choose whatever profession(s) we end[ed] up working our entire lives? I woke up during my last year of high school & decided if I couldn't beat 'em I might as well join 'em...lo these past 44 years~LOL. Now, I am certainly NOT badmouthing earlier comments above, only wondering WHY NOW is this subject all-of-a-sudden MORE important than it was yesterday, or last year, or 20 or 40 years ago? As I say, color me ignorant--and please don't shoot the messenger! After all, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate! Our 3 vehicles are American...if that matters! But I, personally, have NO problem with anyone who buys foreign! Or maybe I have a problem with Americans acting superior to every other nation in the world! I am of the live and let live mentality! Why is what Toyota is doing a BAD thing, I guess is my simple/complicated question?


GenoTex
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 8492
From: Oakfield, WI, USA
Registered: MAR 2002

posted 02-08-2006 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GenoTex     
is it any worse than exxon's profit? i think not...

that said, I made a decision in 1984 not to buy any more foregin cars... and stuck to it ... (though I cant help but feel I comprised a bit when I got my 04 Xfire built in Germany by a (now German controlled) "American" company... one we all know and love(?)....

It's dang hard to even FIND "American made" on any products anymore... last summer I drove 40 miles to Sheboygan WI just to buy towels made in America. tough to do on a regulard basis .... hard to justify.

Greed is the source of all this ... bottom line. We sell (via stock market) to the highest bidder, no one cares
'who' the buyer is, it's the biggest buck that counts, and then (as has been going on for quite a while) they export the mfg out of the US and here we sit... no longer a mfg leader, but surely more and more a consumer nation.

And it isn't ALL "WalMart", though for sure they havent helped, the fact is they provide a service that is needed... if we didn't want "Buy Low Sell High" they wouldnt be in business either.

Damned right it's frustrating as hell!
"Superiority" of Americans is possibly one of the root problems... such a small world we live in that people have to believe they are at the top of the pile or do what is necessary to remain there...

So are the days of our lives.......

MDProwler
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 5250
From: Fallston,MD USA
Registered: JUL 2003

posted 02-08-2006 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDProwler     
Like so many things in life the bigger they get the more out of control they get.

Unions were necesary in the early 1900's but later they got too big and greedy.

Big business gets so big they let quality slide and fall apart.

Not much in tune to the yen, the yin, the yang and all that stuff but my thoughts are that if it wasn't for Toyota and the other imports we would all still be driving 3 year old rust buckets with misfitted body panels.

It's a tuff time to be sure for those in manufacturing relate careers but todays youth don't want to work in a factory. Factory work is a huge part of our history and contributed to our country's growth. But as other countries evolve they will have to go through the same steps of evolution as the US did. And the US will evolve beyond that and continue to lead the world with technology.

The US invented computers, the internet and tons of software that came with it. Medical research and mapping the human Genome is huge. And most of those jobs are well paying.

We're just shifting focus, that's all. The good ol' U S of A will be just fine.

Well I only meant to write a sentence or two but I got carried away.

Badee Badee Badee That's all folks!

SirReal
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 3332
From: Burtonsville,Md Good ole U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2003

posted 02-08-2006 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SirReal     
Bob sadly, economic patriotism barely has a pulse. I share your anger and dismay. I watched the town I grew up in die a quick death when the glass factories were sold, dismantled and shipped overseas. It hits us on many levels. It seems that no one is in the watch tower.

I don't know if the country will wake up in time but I do know this, I will walk on blistered, bloody feet before I buy any car that is not made here.

WildCat I was raised,clothed,fed and sheltered on my Father's Union wages, so your reply hit home with me! I salute you Jeff

ALLEY CAT
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 36093
From: Mesa, Az
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     
sorry,,,,,,,,double posted

This message has been edited by ALLEY CAT on 02-08-2006 at 08:21 PM

ALLEY CAT
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 36093
From: Mesa, Az
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     
sorry,,,,,,,,,,double posted,,,,then deleted both by mistake.

Oh well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

This message has been edited by ALLEY CAT on 02-08-2006 at 09:22 PM

MDProwler
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 5250
From: Fallston,MD USA
Registered: JUL 2003

posted 02-08-2006 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDProwler     
Did you single post?


tangled up in BLUE
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 11086
From: New Castle, Ind
Registered: DEC 2000

posted 02-08-2006 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tangled up in BLUE     
...I own 3 cars built in Kentucky, 1 made in Ohio, 7 made in Detroit and I don't know where the 68 GTO was made, but it was made in the USA....where all the parts are from, who knows

.....I just like it that way...

Ed W.
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 2622
From: Port Huron, MI USA
Registered: JAN 2003

posted 02-08-2006 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ed W.     
Bob,
Well stated.
Unfortunately, apathy is the greatest disease this Country has ever known (although most people will deny their apathy).

The Wal-Marts will continue to lure consumers who care for nothing but cheap prices.......
Toyota will never provide for it's workers, but Americans will flock to buy their products.........

In a nutshell, the difference between ignorance & apathy?

"I don't know, & I don't give a damn"

Americans are suffering from both mixed with a terminal case of denial.

JMO

ed monahan
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 33595
From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     
It is a global economy. P & G is headquartered here and was founded here. That is as American as you can get. EXCEPT they have plants all over the world and some of their products are made overseas. I don't know all of the brands they now have. They sell off entire lines and buy new lines. About a year ago I noticed the main P & G plant right off I-75 is now the St. Bernard Soap company. It was Ivorydale for probably 100 years. I did not see a word in the paper about it.
How do you buy American? It is tough. Do foreigners own our stock? Do we have folks buying and selling on the Japanese market. I think we need to change the way we think, totally. There is no simple answer, for sure.


MDProwler
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 5250
From: Fallston,MD USA
Registered: JUL 2003

posted 02-08-2006 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDProwler     
Just gotta ask this cause I don't know the answer, and since most don't like to see foreign car manufacturers here in the US.(myself included)

GM sold 9.17 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, the most it has sold in 27 years.


How many were built outside the US? What are the plant conditions and pay scale compared to American workers?


RPL
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 3448
From: Rochester Hills, MI
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RPL     
My point wasn't about a competitive market, it was specifically about the fact that American companies do not have the same advantages of some of their major facing competitors. When countries manipulate their currencies their home companies have an unfair advantage. When countries import laws essentially lock US companies out of their home market, our companies can't even attempt to compete. Try sending a US made product to China, how about a US made car in Korea or US beef in Japan. We let virtually everyone that wants to sell their products here with minimal barriers. Do you know what Toyota's worst fear is? Its the fact that Washington will wake up and make them compete on a level playing field. Do an Internet search. You'll find the statements made by the chairman of Toyota. Heck even Toyota is afraid of both China and India. They made a mistake with Korea sharing technology that made the Korean car manufacturers competitive in ten years versus the twenty that it took them to make it. They're saying that the Chinese will do it in five years. The Chinese have zero respect for intellectual rights. Share technology with them and they'll gladly steal it.

I'm not crying sour grapes, I'm just calling BS, BS! Wake up Washington. Is anyone home?

tangled up in BLUE
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 11086
From: New Castle, Ind
Registered: DEC 2000

posted 02-08-2006 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tangled up in BLUE     
quote:
Originally posted by RPL:
My point wasn't about a competitive market, it was specifically about the fact that American companies do not have the same advantages of some of their major facing competitors. When countries manipulate their currencies their home companies have an unfair advantage. When countries import laws essentially lock US companies out of their home market, our companies can't even attempt to compete. Try sending a US made product to China, how about a US made car in Korea or US beef in Japan. We let virtually everyone that wants to sell their products here with minimal barriers. Do you know what Toyota's worst fear is? Its the fact that Washington will wake up and make them compete on a level playing field. Do an Internet search. You'll find the statements made by the chairman of Toyota. Heck even Toyota is afraid of both China and India. They made a mistake with Korea sharing technology that made the Korean car manufacturers competitive in ten years versus the twenty that it took them to make it. They're saying that the Chinese will do it in five years. The Chinese have zero respect for intellectual rights. Share technology with them and they'll gladly steal it.

I'm not crying sour grapes, I'm just calling BS, BS! Wake up Washington. Is anyone home?


I lived in Taiwan from 1971 to 1973.....at that time there was a 100% import tax on automobiles, appliances and electronic goods....



DIXIE Cat
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 435
From: FLORIDA, USA
Registered: MAR 2011

posted 02-08-2006 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DIXIE Cat     
BS? Posting here won't get Washington to wake up. It takes votes and letters to congressmen and representatives. It takes us, all of us to get off our finger pointing butts and get out from behind the big screen HDTV to go vote! We all share your concerns. But as the Indians used to say "white man speak with forked tongue". We want it both ways...or ALL ways. We want the higher wages and cheaper products. We want American made products but a $100K salary to work in a non-union or union factory. Unions had a place at the right time, but union wages also ran business overseas. Even our airlines can't make a profit and it's not because of high gas prices or pilots who make $100K plus. We're paying less now for air tickets than we paid 20 years ago. Will you volunteer to pay more for your ticket? We're selling more guns now than ever before but Winchester Firearms announced their plant closing last week. Winchester of all things American made and can't even make it! It's cheaper to import them. We want two or three cars in every garage and then we bitch because gas is so expensive. The last time I checked, gas was over $5 a gallon in Italy, has been that much for many, many years but Italians for some reason drive more fuel efficient cars, even if they weren't built in Italy. Our products, prices and salaries are screwed up because WE DID IT. Now, WE MUST FIX IT.....but are WE ready to make the sacrifice? I doubt it...


ed monahan
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 33595
From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-08-2006 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     
Dixie, a lot of truth in what you posted, also. People shop at Wal-Mart in droves but criticize their wages, health plans (or lack there of).


RPL
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 3448
From: Rochester Hills, MI
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 02-09-2006 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RPL     
A lot of good points here. Didn't know about the Winchester plant. Hopefully it isn't the entire company.

You're correct, we can't sit back and just complain. I've voted in every election, often casting absentee ballots because we were going to be out of town. My senators and Representative probably think that I'm a nut case, but they know what concerns me. Have you ever sent an email to the President on an issue that you feel strongly about, I have.

I don't have a problem with people purchasing the product of their choice. I try to support American companies as best that I can. I purchase gas from Marathon because they claim to be an American company.

But again, my original point was that we American have a sense of fair play when it comes to our trading partners. They do not treat us fairly at all. That is up to Washington to try to do something about. Trade laws, trade barriers and currency manipulation.

Wayne hit on some big issues facing the American society. There are many more of our own making: prescription drug costs, health care, tort reform, pension issues and numerous others. Dixie is correct, its up to each of us to do our little part. If you don't like what's going on with your elected representatives, go out and vote against them. Feel strongly about a particular issue, write all our the appropriate legislators. It takes work. It takes everyone doing something. We got where we are because we let it happen. I wanted to share a few facts that the media generally won't tell you. I thought that you might care to know some of what is going on.

Sorry about to soap box. Thanks for all of your comments. That's what its about free speech and the right to be heard.

Ed W.
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 2622
From: Port Huron, MI USA
Registered: JAN 2003

posted 02-09-2006 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ed W.     
Point taken Bob. I believe there is wide acceptance on all your points. Free speech seems to be widely misunderstood
in my opinion. It seems acceptable as long as there is NO opposing point of view.

What really amazes me is the radical Islamic community that feels it acceptable for Al Jezera to broadcast the beheadings/murders of human beings, yet finds it blasphemous to illustrate the Prophet Mohamad in cartoon form as a point of speech. Are we missing something in this?

When it is all said & done, religion (for those who pursue it) is a very personal thing (i.e. one on one). Should someone chose to belittle or ridicule
my religous faith, I feel for their lose, but my faith personal (inside) will get me through it. I may have some inner feelings toward the critic, but my faiths & beliefs will dictact where I spend eternity, not his.

Freedom of speech/press should also come with an endless amount of tolorence. In many segments of (the world's) society, it does not.

How is that for going off on a tagent?

JMO

This message has been edited by Ed W. on 02-09-2006 at 09:41 AM

YellowFever
unregistered

Posts: 2622
From: Port Huron, MI USA
Registered: JAN 2003

posted 02-09-2006 09:40 AM           
quote:
Originally posted by ed monahan:
Dixie, a lot of truth in what you posted, also. People shop at Wal-Mart in droves but criticize their wages, health plans (or lack there of).

Exactly! People scream about American jobs but, it's for the other guy to save while they get the lowest price on their goods.

Is it any worse for a company to ship jobs overseas to save money then for the consumer to buy up items from China to save money? We like to blame the big companies as being greedy but, if saving money is greedy we are all guilty of it.

The economy has also changed from 60 years ago. This is a global community now. Even if you buy an American car, chances are 60% of it is parts from overseas or is put together overseas.

Rather then whine about the way things used to be, we need to look at the way things are and forward to the way it benefits America most.

Wayne Finch
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4011
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: SEP 2000

posted 02-09-2006 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wayne Finch     
YF, right on


lavka
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 884
From: Marble Falls, Texas
Registered: JUN 2001

posted 02-09-2006 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lavka     

quote:

The US invented computers, the internet and tons of software that came with it. Medical research and mapping the human Genome is huge. And most of those jobs are well paying.

Amigo, You are about 5 years behind on this point...

Computer programmers have the highest unemployment rate in the nation, about 5.8% right now. India is a hotbed for outsourced software development because US companies only need to give them a PC to work on and a few dollars a day wages. Likewise electronic hardware design support and manufacturing of computing platforms and other electronic gadgets and gizmos we all think we can't live without (blackberries, cell phones, ipods...) is happening overseas in places like Malaysia, Thailand , Singapore and China.

I tell my son to forget about computers, electronics or engineering and get interested in careers like Construction or Veterinarian because they can't ship those jobs overseas.

This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are CT (US)

This is an ARCHIVED topic. You may not reply to it!
Hop to:

Contact Us | Prowler Online Homepage

All material contained herein, Copyright 2000 - 2012 ProwlerOnline.com
E-Innovations, LP

POA Terms of Service

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c