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Author Topic:   Today's Sign of the Apocalypse,,,,,,,,,
ALLEY CAT
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 36093
From: Mesa, Az
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-17-2005 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     
I know many of you will be shedding a few tears after reading this story from Nashville, Tenn.

Gas station owners' dilemma: too few twos

It turns out that when regular gas prices top $2 a gallon, it can be a pain for station owners, too — sometimes there aren't enough twos to go around for their signs.

As average prices for regular unleaded topped the $2 mark in Nashville yesterday, there's been a growing demand for the number 2 from some convenience-store and gas-station owners, said Bobby Joslin of Joslin and Son Sign Co.

''The large numbers cost about $150 each, so stores don't keep a large inventory of them around,'' Joslin said yesterday.

There was a significant run on twos last year, when premium prices first crossed the $2-per-gallon threshold in the area, Joslin said.

There was a lull when prices dropped, but there's been a surge again as prices for regular unleaded have jumped almost 20 cents a gallon in the past month.

''You've got to have so many more (twos) when each grade goes to $2,'' said Jay Perkins of Scot Market, a convenience store chain based in Nashville. ''If you post three grades, you've got three twos right there.''

It gets even trickier when prices edge toward $2.02 for regular, $2.12 for mid-grade and $2.22 for premium, he said.

Scot Market felt the two crunch last year and ordered extras, Perkins said. So far this year, it hasn't been too big of a problem.

''I stocked up last year,'' he said. ''I've got plenty.''

Higher demand for twos prompted a primary supplier for convenience store signs in the United States to adjust the packet of numbers that it routinely ships to gas station and convenience store customers for fuel signs.

''We've added more twos and threes,'' said Bobbie Shosty, marketing director of May Advertising in Fort Worth, Texas. ''We used to put in a lot more ones than we do now.''

Higher gas prices have prompted changes in the way gas-station signs are designed, with companies allowing extra room for a wider first number.

''For years, it's always been with the one in front of it,'' Joslin said. ''The number twos are even wider, so it's complicated that situation somewhat.''

A few rural stations may run into problems with older mechanical pumps that don't have digital readouts and can't display revolving prices higher than $1.99 a gallon. But there's been no serious shortage of twos for their signs, said Marylee Booth, executive director of the Tennessee Oil Marketers Association.

''Nobody has complained to me about it, but I suspect they scrambled just as hard as everybody to get everything in place'' when prices started to rise, she said.

A daily survey of gasoline sales by travel company AAA South pegged the average price for regular, self-service unleaded at $2.004 in Nashville yesterday, the highest it's been this year. The national average was $2.05 a gallon.

The federal Energy Information Agency predicted yesterday that regular unleaded gas prices will hover around $2.15 a gallon through the spring, with further spikes during popular travel times.

Shosty said it could get worse in some parts of the country if her company's orders are any indication.

''We did get a few calls for threes in California,'' she said.




01Prowler
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 5068
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: OCT 2012

posted 03-17-2005 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 01Prowler     
A gas station attendant told me today that they are going to be priced at $2.15 for regular tomorrow here in Dallas. I can't see it going up .20 overnight but I guess I'll see.


Lone Ranger
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 2120
From: Sedalia Mo USA
Registered: MAY 2003

posted 03-17-2005 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lone Ranger     

The price of our regular has jumped twenty-six cents in the past two weeks.



ALLEY CAT
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 36093
From: Mesa, Az
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-17-2005 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     
Lonely - the gas station owners have to eat also!


I hear ya,,,,,nothing we can do,,,,total eclipse of the billfold.

Ron - Texas is always one of the cheapest states for gasoline,,,,what happened? Sell the paint company,,,buy oil stock,,,lol.

tangled up in BLUE
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 11086
From: New Castle, Ind
Registered: DEC 2000

posted 03-17-2005 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tangled up in BLUE     
gas went up almost 30 cents per gallon here today....

prem $2.44

This message has been edited by tangled up in BLUE on 03-17-2005 at 09:08 PM

01Prowler
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 5068
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: OCT 2012

posted 03-17-2005 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 01Prowler     
I'm thinking about it...

No one can afford to buy paint now since gas is so high..

Lone Ranger
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 2120
From: Sedalia Mo USA
Registered: MAY 2003

posted 03-17-2005 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lone Ranger     

At the rate the prices are going, maybe these guys need to place their orders for more threes. Bummer.



ed monahan
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 33595
From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-18-2005 01:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     
Ours took a huge jump today. $ 2.39 for premium and my gas light was on so I filled it up. It was 20 cents cheaper yesterday. I guess the gas in the ground in the tanks appreciated overnight.


halicat
unregistered

Posts: 33595
From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-18-2005 05:42 AM           
once I convert the liters to gallons and factor in the exchange rate we are paying $3.296/us gallon today. CNN showed a gas station sign in California yesterday that was at $3.15/gallon...

if that ain't the end of the world ,
I don't know what is !!!


Randy Cobb
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4070
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: JUL 2002

posted 03-18-2005 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Cobb     
I kown you guys don't want to hear this, but gas retailers and distributors are getting killed with these price high prices.

Their cost of inventory has gone up 120 to 140% over the last 14 months while their margins have completly disappeared. I live it every day and most nights that I can't sleep.

No Prowler mods here. I'm just trying to hold on to it and everything else I've got right now.

ALLEY CAT
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 36093
From: Mesa, Az
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-18-2005 07:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     
I know what you are saying Randy. Some smaller volume stations can't afford to write out a certified check to the gas supply tanker companies. Tell us what a tanker full of fuel to drop, costs the station owner,,,,if you would?

This thread wasn't directed at the cost of fuel,,,,just the cost of the signs being used out on the street frontage signs.

dbudner
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 1391
From: Dallas, Ga. USA
Registered: SEP 2002

posted 03-18-2005 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dbudner     
The cup of coffee that may have been your favorite at that gas station is sure to go up too since the dealer has to make some money somewhere...


Randy Cobb
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4070
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: JUL 2002

posted 03-18-2005 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Cobb     
AC-

I got one of our accounting staff to bring me a typical invoice.

This is ExxonMobil branded gas delivered to a dealer (has one c store) that operates here in Greensboro. Lowest possible freight since the terminal is here also. It is the typical load of 6,500 Reg., 1,500 Mid Grade & 1,000 Prem. for a total load of 9,000 gallons. Included is the rack cost of the gas, plus State/Federal taxes/fees, freight, plus our margin (gross profit) of 1/2 cent. The total invoice is $18,252.05.

No one believes me when I tell them that we (distributor) are only making 1/2 cent per gallon, which equates to $45.00 for an $18,252.05 transaction.

This particular dealer is retailing his reg. (87 octane)gas for 1.6 cents per gallon over his cost. He still has his overhead (mortgage note, salaries, power, etc.) to cover. Got to sell a s***load of twinkies to survive and many aren't.


Randy Cobb
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4070
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: JUL 2002

posted 03-18-2005 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Cobb     
I forgot to mention that the taxes here in NC are only the 12th highest in the country. The terminal here is the 2nd largest landlocked facility in the country so there tends to be better deals here due to the volume. Also the freight on the abovementioned invoice is low because the station is only 2 miles from the terminal when the average load must travel 40 miles here, a whole lot further in some parts of the country. I have a buddy in west Texas, right in the middle of the oil patch, that has wells in sight of his office and my laid-in cost is cheaper than his due to the fact he has to travel 2 hours to the nearest terminal.

Bottom line - The above invoice is low compare to most parts of the country.

Randy Cobb
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4070
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: JUL 2002

posted 03-18-2005 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Cobb     
Price sign numbers.

$150 for a number has to be a gigantic one for a truck stop. We use electonic numerals on this type of sign.

The ones that go into a standard price and ID sign cost me $6 to $8 each when purchase in bulk. You need either 6 or 12 depending on the location.

I check with our contoller and we have either paid for, have invoices for or have on order over $6,800 in interchangable 2s for mechanical per signs and have spent or are going to spend another $2,000 for programming of the electronic signs.

Almost 9 grand total to post for $2+ fuel!



ed monahan
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 33595
From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-18-2005 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     
Randy, I am not trying to give you a hard time but they do not all get gas deliveries on the same day, yet everyone jumps the price at the exact hour. Your example shows the guy is paying a tiny bit over $2 a gallon. I realize that most of it is regular but if he is selling that at $2.19 he is making 18 cents a gallon on that and 38 cents a gallon on the premium. I realize there is overhead so even 18 cents a gallon does not seem to be gouging. I just cannot believe they all get gas everyday.
We need to change something drastically. It is hard to believe they are pushing the Hemi's, the BIG trucks, etc. I would think we would see some small cars being pushed in the near future. It takes a long time to change the public's way of thinking, however.


ALLEY CAT
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 36093
From: Mesa, Az
Registered: JUL 2000

posted 03-19-2005 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALLEY CAT     
Randy - thanks for the informative posts,,,sheds light on the real facts.

A year or so ago, I was at a Exxon 'service' station when a tanker arrived. The station owner didn't have a certified check for the $15,000 payment needed to drop the gas,,,,the tanker left without dropping. Thirty days later, that station was closed. I see Exxon/Mobil report billions of $$ profits each year,,,,so we often think the middleman and station owners are getting to us,,,not so.

idive
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 8483
From: Texas USA
Registered: APR 2003

posted 03-19-2005 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for idive     
quote:
Originally posted by ed monahan:
...
We need to change something drastically. It is hard to believe they are pushing the Hemi's, the BIG trucks, etc. I would think we would see some small cars being pushed in the near future. It takes a long time to change the public's way of thinking, however.


Our local news station held a poll a couple days ago. 73% of the responders said it would take over $3/gal to make them do something different with what they drive, how they drive, or where they drive. Results were shocking to me! Gas around these parts just went to $2, so I hear. I got gas yesterday for $1.89. A 20 or 30 cent hike overnight can't be considered anything BUT illegal price gouging IMO!!!
Speaking from experience, the oil companies are making record profits. You'd figure they could spend a little of it hiring someone, but they are holding on to all that money!


tangled up in BLUE
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 11086
From: New Castle, Ind
Registered: DEC 2000

posted 03-19-2005 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tangled up in BLUE     
Randy.....looks like the gas business may have an even lower gross than the tobacco business.....and I thought it was tight...


Randy Cobb
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4070
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: JUL 2002

posted 03-21-2005 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Cobb     
Ed -

No you are not beating me up, you are just thinking rational and the gas business is totally irrational!

Local street to street competition actually dictates short term retail prices more than wholesale prices. Of course wholesale increases can only be absorbed so long, but retailers are reluctant to be the first station to raise retail prices when wholesale prices increase due to a loss of volume. Less low margin gas sold = less high margin Twinkies sold. Thus margins are squeezed when wholesale prices increase. Retailers just hope to weather the storm until wholesale prices decrease. Retailers get killed in increasing markets and hope to make it up in decreasing markets. Long "up markets" is what kill most retailers.

You are most definitely right in that not all stations get loads the same day. In these times, due to costs alone most dealers need to wait until their tanks are almost empty before taking a load and everyone is typically on a different cycle. I know it would appear that some stations may have lower cost inventory in their tanks, but with the consolidation in the business plus the volume driven economics of the business most of the surviving stations today pump enough volume that it warrants them getting a load every day to every third day, so their inventory turns are fairly quick. Even in rural areas, if a station is not getting at least 5 loads a month they will be closing down soon. The economics are volume driven. Shipments are often at night, so deliveries are made to stations more often than the general public realizes.

Yes, my earlier example shows an average cost of slightly above $2 a gallon pooled for all grades and that is in Greensboro, NC where the retail prices are averaging $2.04 for reg., $2.11 for midgrade & $2.15 for prem here. I assume $2.19 retail is based on Cincy prices and I'm positive the wholesale laid-in (rack price,taxes, transportation) price there is higher. Plus with these higher prices people are not purchasing the same volumes of the higher margin premium that they used to. Company wide our mid and prem sales combined in 2003 were 37% of total volume and this fical year (August '04 till now) it has fallen to 21%.

Randy Cobb
Prowler Junkie

Posts: 4070
From: Greensboro, NC
Registered: JUL 2002

posted 03-21-2005 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Cobb     
idive -

I'm not in your market, so I don't know the particulars, but I've seen the same thing happen.

Most dealers are independent business people and some are good, some OK and some bad. I had a case similar to this last week with one of our retailers. The dealer returned from at trip and saw the invoice for the last load (which had an increse of 10 cent from the previous load) and knee jerk reacted with an 18 cent increase.

If the dealer in your area is bad (gouges, unfriendly, dirty station, coffee tastes bad, etc.) or happens to be asleep at the wheel on occasions, market conditions will take care of him.

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