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Author	Topic: let the truth be known-obi wan
jan bruggeman unregistered Posts: 18860 From: Rochester Hills, MI USA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 06:08 AM this is the truth and nothing but the truth.i and i alone created the make your doors open wider mod.i copyrighted it in june 2000.put the post on this site for the benefit of other owners.being an x artist who created only original fine art,who copyrighted every thing,i did,copyright the mod.in fall of i think 2002 went on cruise w/calif.owners in so.neveda.met scott for the first time,in the parking lot of the hotel,he's talking about the mods he's going to create.i showed him my door mod,which he thought was great.witnesses present.about a year later he's selling a kit.buy the way.nobody on this site knows its copyrighted not even my fellow az.prowlers.so i call him and say,what are you doing trying to take credit for my mod,which is copyrighted.heres his exact word.i created this mod beore you and i dont care if you copyrighted it.guess he forgot about the parking lot meeting where i showed it to him.i could have sued him for copyright infringement but didnt,cause it s not worth it.it really ------ me off when a person stands there and lies to me and takes credit for my idea.the mod is for all owners,not intended to make money on it.i told him to go ahead and sell the kits,as a service to other owners who couldnt do it themselves.so scott stop taking credit for my idea.many people on this site think your a great person,and thats there opinion,and there entitled to it,you have created fraud and taken credit for my idea.if you come forward and admit to it,then maybe i will forgive you,maybe maybe not.i can tell you this you have no business ethics none-zip- nada.just the truth with witnesses to spare.and as far as im concerned thats the end of it. ------------------ This message has been edited by jan bruggeman on 02-19-2005 at 06:10 AM
butchcee Prowler Junkie Posts: 7476 From: Lake Ariel, Pa. Registered: SEP 2000	posted 02-19-2005 07:22 AM Lost welder, lost fixtures, (shop that big, or just poor organization?)lost deposit, 2 shops, welded wrong 2 times WITH a print, we're not talking brain surgery here, and the final line "The people that know me know just how much I care now if I can just quit beating myself up when it's beyond me sometimes-damit". Fishing for sympathy? I've known a couple of people that are the most convincing liars that even they themselves are fooled.They believe their own BS. They sure fooled me and made me trust my first impressions. I've never met or talked to you Scott, so I don't really know if you fall into this catagory and may be out of line, but it seems to me that your heading down this road. It wont stop you from making money though--look at Hennesy. A big thief, but he makes the Vipers fast, and they keep coming back. While you might make a first rate product what's more important is personal integrity. You should have been on the computer,(Oh yeah,it was broken), or had John make the announcement that the money would be refunded right away instead of letting your name be dragged in the mud. Was the phone out of order too? This is just good business and shows personal worth. I know it would have bugged that hell out of me. I'll get off my box and as I said,I may be out of line and this might have been better sent in a PM, but screw it, it's here. You can fool some of the people some of the time---etc, etc. Oh yeah, what about Jan's hinges? OK guys, beat me up.
Chromer Prowler Junkie Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 08:09 AM I can't speak to Scott's character, but I can speak to Jan's. Jan was indeed the original developer of "Bruggerman Door Mod" and Jan should be given full credit for the achievement. Thanks Jan!..and I'm proud your door mod and your name is included in my banner. the "Bruggerman Door Mod" rocks! ------------------
davidn unregistered Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 08:47 AM quote: Originally posted by butchcee: Lost welder, lost fixtures, (shop that big, or just poor organization?)lost deposit, 2 shops, welded wrong 2 times WITH a print, we're not talking brain surgery here, and the final line "The people that know me know just how much I care now if I can just quit beating myself up when it's beyond me sometimes-damit". Fishing for sympathy? I've known a couple of people that are the most convincing liars that even they themselves are fooled.They believe their own BS. They sure fooled me and made me trust my first impressions. I've never met or talked to you Scott, so I don't really know if you fall into this catagory and may be out of line, but it seems to me that your heading down this road. It wont stop you from making money though--look at Hennesy. A big thief, but he makes the Vipers fast, and they keep coming back. While you might make a first rate product what's more important is personal integrity. You should have been on the computer,(Oh yeah,it was broken), or had John make the announcement that the money would be refunded right away instead of letting your name be dragged in the mud. Was the phone out of order too? This is just good business and shows personal worth. I know it would have bugged that hell out of me. I'll get off my box and as I said,I may be out of line and this might have been better sent in a PM, but screw it, it's here. You can fool some of the people some of the time---etc, etc. Oh yeah, what about Jan's hinges? OK guys, beat me up. butchcee, You are right on point here..... This message has been edited by davidn on 02-19-2005 at 08:48 AM
halicat unregistered Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 09:22 AM why can't you guys settle this without making this a big deal in front of all the people that just want to enjoy this site.........oh yea... its the free speech thing isn't it ? anyone else out there think this should be handled by pm's instead of public floggings ?? speak up ? I suppose its time to throw me back in the fire....
Chromer Prowler Junkie Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 09:29 AM quote: Originally posted by halicat: .....anyone else out there think this should be handled by pm's instead of public floggings ?? speak up ? I vote FOR Public Floggings of Sinners! ------------------
Ray unregistered Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 09:33 AM Halicat ... to a degree I agree with you, however, I see Jan's point in setting the record straight. Seems he designed something to 'share' freely with the group and someone else supposedly taking credit fir the 'feature' but also profiting from it as well ... in my book that is not right. To air in public versus keep behind PM's? Well, if you were a newbie ... would you want to have your first experience purchasing something from someone on this site be Obi-wan with his poor track record for timely delivery, lack of courteous and timely communication?? I would be upset and have a poor perception of the POA site if I had fallen victim. Both sides have valid points ... let freedom of speech ring
halicat unregistered Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 09:46 AM i understand what you are saying Ray... and see a valid arguement there, but don't see this as warning for newbies , more of a revenge issue and don't believe this has been handled in a respectfull manner.... 6 of one, 1/2 doz. of the other. I don't expect all to agree with me, but this negative stuff seems to go on forever and takes all the fun out of POA for alot of us..... free speech is a great thing ! we can agree to disagree and still be friends ! i am ordering the cooler cover.... This message has been edited by halicat on 02-19-2005 at 09:46 AM
davidn unregistered Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 10:30 AM quote: Originally posted by halicat: i understand what you are saying Ray... and see a valid arguement there, but don't see this as warning for newbies , more of a revenge issue and don't believe this has been handled in a respectfull manner.... 6 of one, 1/2 doz. of the other. I don't expect all to agree with me, but this negative stuff seems to go on forever and takes all the fun out of POA for alot of us..... free speech is a great thing ! we can agree to disagree and still be friends ! i am ordering the cooler cover.... WOW.. you must really like the fire... you seem to keep throwing yourself in it... I hope you get kissed first before you know what...LOL... This message has been edited by davidn on 02-19-2005 at 10:30 AM
Ray unregistered Posts: 2723 From: Denver, Colorado, USA Registered: DEC 2000	posted 02-19-2005 10:58 AM quote: Originally posted by halicat: we can agree to disagree and still be friends ! Agreed! Or would that be disagreed? ... I'm so confused now!
bbcar Prowler Junkie Posts: 328 From: St. Louis, Mo. U.S.A. Registered: JUL 2004	posted 02-19-2005 11:09 AM I feel Jan did the right thing and should have done it sooner, all the members on this site should know the facts on any issue that could affect them at some point in time. If their is a problem with the honesty of any vendor, the people that use the site should know. If they choose to use that vendor at least they have been warned, if you use pm's to complain of problems no one else would know and if that vendor is active on the site most people will assume that the vendor is in good graces with everyone. I use this site for ideas to improve my Prowler and rely on everyone to be telling correct information. This is the BEST site I have ever joined and visit it several times a day, We should keep it HONEST and clean. Barry
jd2ksilver Prowler Junkie Posts: 4360 From: Mt. View, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 11:16 AM quote: Originally posted by butchcee: You should have been on the computer,(Oh yeah,it was broken), or had John make the announcement that the money would be refunded right away instead of letting your name be dragged in the mud. Just to clarify, I didn't post it because I felt it should have been said by Scott alone and not by me. It was his responsibility to do so. There were enough "words" thrown around by then. I don't really want to "speak" for anyone but myself. Lord knows I don't want my name dragged around in the mud.
jd2ksilver Prowler Junkie Posts: 4360 From: Mt. View, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 11:18 AM And, I think I was there when Jan showed that mod. At Death Valley?
halicat unregistered Posts: 4360 From: Mt. View, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 11:51 AM WOW.. you must really like the fire... you seem to keep throwing yourself in it... I hope you get kissed first before you know what...LOL... [/QUOTE] i really appreciate your concern over my money..... if i get ****** , i'll let you watch i can tell you would enjoy that This message has been edited by halicat on 02-19-2005 at 11:54 AM
TooHipCat Prowler Junkie Posts: 4173 From: Londonderry,NH Registered: MAR 2004	posted 02-19-2005 12:35 PM I wrote this with my Black crayon...what do you think? Have a nice weekend everyone! Brian
davidn unregistered Posts: 4173 From: Londonderry,NH Registered: MAR 2004	posted 02-19-2005 12:43 PM quote: Originally posted by halicat: [B] WOW.. you must really like the fire... you seem to keep throwing yourself in it... I hope you get kissed first before you know what...LOL... i really appreciate your concern over my money..... if i get ** , i'll let you watch i can tell you would enjoy that[/QUOTE] Naw.. that is not my thing but sounds like you like it since you can picture it.. in any case what I don't understand is that people posted warning for your sake and others but still you are hell bound to go for abuse..if you got money laying around and you don't need send it to for for 5 or 6 months i can put it to some good use.... in any case I'm done you can take the horse to the water but you can't make him drink...the old saying some people have to learn the hard way...go for it order it and good luck.....Do you people really think scott was going to pay anyone back if this wasn't posted here?? I'm sure this was the "LAST" RESORT... This message has been edited by davidn on 02-19-2005 at 12:44 PM
halicat unregistered Posts: 4173 From: Londonderry,NH Registered: MAR 2004	posted 02-19-2005 01:02 PM david, if i thought you were looking after my best interests.. i wouldn't have said a thing... i think some people thrive on conflict and it gives them a rush to insult or degrade others, ....heck, even my kids know that making someone else look bad, never makes you look good.... I'm sorry you are out money because of Scott, or are you ? maybe you are just butting in under the missconception of trying to help others... what ever it is i'll say again.... don't worry about my money... how much i got or where i spend it.... don't worry about who is ***** me, cause all of that is my business. I don't come to this site to get angry or disgusted... i come here because i get treated with respect from 99% of the folks... i will post no more on this subject, dispite what is said about me, scott or anyone else the pack attacks. try to enjoy life.. it is to short i think some people thrive on conflict and it gives them a rush to insult or degrade others, ....heck, even my kids know that making someone else look bad, never makes you look good....** This message has been edited by halicat on 02-20-2005 at 06:57 AM
TooHipCat Prowler Junkie Posts: 4173 From: Londonderry,NH Registered: MAR 2004	posted 02-19-2005 01:19 PM quote: Originally posted by halicat: try to enjoy life.. it is to short jim Yes it is! I'm repeating myself...have a great weekend everyone!!! Brian
Gary C Prowler Junkie Posts: 12017 From: San Diego Area Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 01:53 PM Jan, Wow very surprised to hear that... quite a shame As for keeping this off the board, indeed NOT, these posts of people who don't care about what they do to other people need to be said to protect others, I was doing fine until I heard about the other thread... I felt it was my right to inform POA people how I was treated by this person. Sometimes you need to pound things into peoples heads. Jan, thanks for bringing this info forward. You're kinda weird but straight to the point. I like that. I said this someone else do a search before acting or giving money to someone. I do it all the time. *As someone else said enjoy the weekend, be safe and God bless.*
Orange unregistered Posts: 12017 From: San Diego Area Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 09:12 PM quote: Originally posted by Chromer: I vote FOR Public Floggings of Sinners! I am not commenting on the obi-wan issue, just thought that qoute was hillarious!!!!
davidn unregistered Posts: 12017 From: San Diego Area Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-19-2005 09:43 PM quote: Originally posted by halicat: david, if i thought you were looking after my best interests.. i wouldn't have said a thing... i think some people thrive on conflict and it gives them a rush to insult or degrade others, ....heck, even my kids know that making someone else look bad, never makes you look good.... I'm sorry you are out money because of Scott, or are you ? maybe you are just butting in under the missconception of trying to help others... what ever it is i'll say again.... don't worry about my money... how much i got or where i spend it.... don't worry about who is ***** me, cause all of that is my business. I don't come to this site to get angry or disgusted... i come here because i get treated with respect from 99% of the folks... i will post no more on this subject, dispite what is said about me, scott or anyone else the pack attacks. try to enjoy life.. it is to short jim** jim AKA ben Dover, I was going to let this drop but no way in hell i'm going to let run your pie-hole since you have no clue.....un like you "johnny come lately" I have been here from day ONE and helped plenty of people with Many things they know who they are and i don't to list them for you i was doing the same for you dumb a$$ but one member pm me and told me you and AL gore came up with the internet idea....sorry... don't think it is not your strong point..... As for your "pack attacks" and looking good or bad what a crock... I have meet most of folks here and not just on the net like you so you better shut again.. I can care less about obi wan but i have meet Jan and Gary they are friends..from now on you better stay in your hole because it is ON... BTW When I said you so called Garage was Krafty it meant "cheesy"... This message has been edited by davidn on 02-19-2005 at 09:56 PM
Ray unregistered Posts: 12017 From: San Diego Area Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-20-2005 12:24 AM Hmmmm .. DavidN ,,,, and Halicat ... can YOU two please agree to disagee now too?? I am an outspoken sort on this board, Lord knows that, but sheeeesh ... can you two stick a fork in it now?
davidn unregistered Posts: 12017 From: San Diego Area Registered: JUL 2000	posted 02-20-2005 12:40 AM quote: Originally posted by Ray: Hmmmm .. DavidN ,,,, and Halicat ... can YOU two please agree to disagee now too?? I am an outspoken sort on this board, Lord knows that, but sheeeesh ... can you two stick a fork in it now? Ray, you are outspoken but on point MOST often and not a DA plus we go back a LONG way.. but ben dover has another thing coming... This message has been edited by davidn on 02-20-2005 at 12:41 AM
toys Prowler Junkie Posts: 3818 From: kensington Conn, USA Registered: DEC 2003	posted 02-20-2005 12:44 AM AND THE SAGA CONTINUES!!!! Toys
davidn unregistered Posts: 3818 From: kensington Conn, USA Registered: DEC 2003	posted 02-20-2005 01:08 AM quote: Originally posted by toys: AND THE SAGA CONTINUES!!!! Toys no SAGA here ben dover better watch it that is all....