HOME PAGE OWNERS REGISTRY DISCUSSION FORUMS PROWLER STORE CONTACT 10th Anniv Wallpaper ABOUT

Click here to return to the Prowler Online Board Main Page
Thread Closed  Topic Closed
  ProwlerOnline, Plymouth/Chrysler Prowler Discussion Forum
  General Prowler Discussion
  G-FARCE GEARS

Post New Topic  
edit profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ProwlerFriend: Email This Page to Someone!     Click to print this page    Bottom of Page next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   G-FARCE GEARS
Marc-Colo-99


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Aurora, Colorado
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-17-2001 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc-Colo-99     send a private message to Marc-Colo-99   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Marc-Colo-99
I don't know where to begin. I met Dean (Prowler Pro) last year at the dragstrip and was introduced to his gears and nos package in a wild ride. We spent several hours talking about his ideas and development behind the gears and nitrous. He spent thousands of dollars and countless hours in development to make sure OUR cars would be safe with HIS products. He went so far as to only have the original maker of the stock gears make his gears. This caused him months of delays from Borg Warner due to the small size of his orders in relation to the millions of other large volume customers they supply. He then went so far as to send his original gears out for analysis after putting over 10,000 miles on them BEFORE he put them into production. He then pulled the heads off his car after hundreds of nitrous runs to make sure there was no damage from his system BEFORE he would install one in one of our cars. All this because he is so insanely cautious and wants to be sure his products are tested and safe.

For someone to take his gears to another machine shop and simply copy them with no regard for his efforts is not only unethical but possibly illegal. Sure Dean's gears are expensive but so are our cars and most of the mods offered on this board.
Many people have come up with less expensive alternatives to those offered by the many Prowler vendors but so far no one has so blatantly copied one of those suppliers product.
Don't the attorneys already have enough to do?
Let the buyer beware.

------------------

jd2ksilver


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie
Personal ScrapBook

From:Mt. View, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jd2ksilver     send a private message to jd2ksilver   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by jd2ksilver
Marc

You make some good points, and do raise some questions. I feel there are things not being disclosed, or I could just be cautious.
Your right, Dean has stood behind his gears and NOS for a long time.
I am not sure if that is true about someone taking his gears and copying them. If so, then I feel that is wrong.
But just being wrong does not make it illegal ,unethical? maybe.

Questions

Are these the same gear ratio?
If they are from OEM, can we buy direct?
Maybe we should hear more, and possibly from Dean too.

You, being a contractor as I, know there is always someone willing to do our work for less money. I have to rely on quality, promptness, etc to compete at times.

I feel more will be revealed,, or more will be clarified. Lets hope so anyway.

------------------

dpena




POA Site Supporter
Administrating Kat
Visit Dan's Prowler Excitement
Personal ScrapBook

From:San Jose Ca Santa Clara
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dpena     send a private message to dpena   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by dpena
What was the motive behind these new gears?

Are these intended to compete against Deans Prowler Pro gears? If so, why ??

What is Dean doing wrong now that warranted an effort to create a second set that basically addresses the efforts that Dean has spent long hours on?

I think we should give Dean@prowlerpro.com the opportunity to make right whatever it is he might have fallen short on.

Thus far, I have not had any issues with his gears and don't believe I ever will.

I think backing each other up is great thing but out of nowhere begin to directly attack a fellow prowler owner comes across very wrong to me.

Many ideas come out of this forum and all of them tend to be unique.

I make an effort to be unique as much as possible. I try to come up with all my own unique creativity. I try hard to respect others work and not duplicate things. This is especially difficult with websites.

If the picture was turned around, I wonder how that would feel ???

Perceptions are a powerful thing, and can be very deceiving.

If this is not what is going on then, this is just another mental fantasy being placed on a discussion forum which holds no grounds.

Later...

------------------

www.prowlerexcitement.com
links.prowlerexcitement.com

CJ




POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie
Personal ScrapBook

From:Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 06:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CJ     send a private message to CJ   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by CJ
Marc...

Not following this. Part of this story is missing. What happened exactly? It sounds like someone is copying Dean's gears. Is it another Prowler owner or some other company, what?

Little difficult to comment when it doesn't seem like the whole story is here? Can you fill in the blanks?

Okay, I just read the post under Performance. Now it makes more sense. However, if you hadn't seen that, this was not making sense. Sorry, Marc!

Here's the link to the original discussion, just so I'm not the only one that gets confused!

http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000082.html


CJ - 1999 Black
Matching Prowler Trailer
Stock / Classic / Beautiful

This message has been edited by CJ on 05-18-2001 at 07:00 AM

FatManInTheBathTub
Prowler Junkie

From:Palm Coast, FL.
Registered: Aug 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FatManInTheBathTub     send a private message to FatManInTheBathTub   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by FatManInTheBathTub
Hey now all, this is America, the preverbal Land of Opportunity..........I'm sure Dean put a lot into his product but to charge $2K for what looks like a set of timing gears, which is basically what they are. They just time the final drive instead of the valves. The only reason I paid Dean, was their was no other choice at the time. NOW, their is choice! What? you don't want choice? You don't want a great product at a great price? I'm sure there is enough difference in the two products to keep the attorneys out of it. I guess Dean is going to have to come down on his price. That's business.........I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone this but its still dog eat dog when it comes to biz so lighten up and lets see who comes out with a real set of drag racing gears with a matching chain.....loyalty is fine but just don't take away my choices......................

This message has been edited by FatManInTheBathTub on 05-18-2001 at 08:13 AM

Alex

POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Westminster, CO USA
Registered: Apr 2001
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex     send a private message to Alex   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Alex
Marc, I understand your loyalty and it is your every right. But... We are going to have to take the Kats out and get a bite to eat, and have a little chat about Capitalism, Business, Supply & Demand, and Basic Economics.
I am sure for copy right reasons the G-FORCE gears are slightly different than Dean's. And time will tell... If Dean's are the better gears then his price will remain the same. If not and the new G-FORCE gears are to everybody's liking Dean will have to lower his price to become competitive. This happened in the tile industry when "Cement Board" came out, making the old floating method of getting cement on the wall obsolite. I had the change with the times in order to become competitive even though I had been floating walls the old way for 15 years.
When we have lunch I'll have a cocktail with you this time.
Call me.

Alex

------------------
2001 Orange Kat

Marc-Colo-99


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Aurora, Colorado
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc-Colo-99     send a private message to Marc-Colo-99   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Marc-Colo-99
I agree. If the G force gears are different there should be no issue. However my understanding at this point which led to my post is that they are identical and even made by the same company Borg Warner. If they are in fact different than Deans then there should be no issue, but if they are just copies I have a real problem with somebody trying to reap the benefit of Deans R&D.
Time will tell.

------------------

butchcee


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Lake Ariel, Pa.
Registered: Sep 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for butchcee     send a private message to butchcee   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by butchcee
^^^^^^^

------------------

Yellow is DCOOLEST

Todd Cameron
unregistered

Admin Use
posted 05-18-2001 11:19 AM           send a private message to butchcee   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Todd Cameron
Let me tell you about a friend of mine called Gary Bang, he used to have an after market Harley Davidson parts business, called (imagine this) Gary Bang. He was THE 1st large scale Harley reproduction parts house. Harley got pissed at him in the 70ís and sued for big buckos. With the exception of Harley getting him to take the name off of the items being made, Harley lost, after of course, Gary spent millions defending his right to copy Harley Davidson parts. This opened the doors for other after market Harley companyís who now sell billionís in after market items. Gary has since closed down Gary Bang and runs his own Harley dealership in Atascadero California, Called (gasp) Gary Bang Harley Davidson. The point is, it is a free market, and anyone can have another company make anything identical to another, by even the same manufacturer, unless you specifically have a licensing agreement with said manufacturer.

------------------
2000 Black, 2001 Black Tie, 2001 Orange

jd2ksilver


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie
Personal ScrapBook

From:Mt. View, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jd2ksilver     send a private message to jd2ksilver   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by jd2ksilver
Good point Tood
butchcee


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Lake Ariel, Pa.
Registered: Sep 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for butchcee     send a private message to butchcee   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by butchcee
Todd, I used a Bang primary cover on my pan. Good stuff. More thoughts on the gears-I understand your comparison to HD clone parts, but there was plenty of HD business to share. Prowler business is on a much smaller scale. What happens to these guys when they get priced out. It's not just the gears we lose, it's everything else they make. I was asked about making a set of front end braces but said no because it wasn't my idea. I just improved(I think) on Mac's design and I wouldn't feel right selling their idea even though the design is different. Plus there's the insurance thing in case something breaks and someone gets killed. As I said before, the gear prices are way too high but stealing Dean's idea and selling the same product isnt Kosher in my book.

------------------

Yellow is DCOOLEST

Jim S

POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Oak View,Ca.
Registered: Sep 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim S     send a private message to Jim S   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Jim S
Marc, while I admire your loyalty to Dean, I don't think he holds the right to be the only vendor for gears, just because he was the first to hit the market with them. Just as there are other vendors for nitrous, etc., I see no problem with other gear vendors, even if they have the same gear ratios. The real factors here are, who offers the best product, guarentee, reliability, customer support, service, etc. for the money. In my line of work, my customers do buisness with me not based on price alone, as I am not the cheapest( let me rephrase that :least expensive: sounds better) around, they feel my company gives them the most for there money in the long run. Remember that for any performance mod for just sbout any vehicle, there has always been multiple vendors selling like products. Performance gear sets are no different. Just my opinion.

------------------
Jim

NVRMND


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Houston, Texas usa
Registered: Apr 2001
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NVRMND     send a private message to NVRMND   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by NVRMND
Wow, you guys are right.
butchcee


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Lake Ariel, Pa.
Registered: Sep 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-18-2001 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for butchcee     send a private message to butchcee   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by butchcee
Which Guys?

------------------

Yellow is DCOOLEST

dpena




POA Site Supporter
Administrating Kat
Visit Dan's Prowler Excitement
Personal ScrapBook

From:San Jose Ca Santa Clara
Registered: Jul 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-19-2001 02:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dpena     send a private message to dpena   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by dpena
MAN!!!

Just because..... well he did it ..... its all his fault ...????

How about it starting with us. Lets forget for a moment what the other guy did. What about what we are doing?

How about examing our motives every so often?

All of you have heard ... well if the monkey jumped off the hill, are you doing it too .....????

We all are desiring peace and harmony in the United States of America but no one seems to want to be the one to make the first step towards achieving such a goal. It all starts with me ........ PERIOD!!!

All this CRAP about, well he did it, so, I'm doing it too. That is the easy way out. It takes more courage and strength to do what is right.

If I keep passing the buck.... don't I realize the job might not get done??

But, I know either way, life still goes on. We all reap what we sow. What comes around goes around.

Treat those as you would like to be treated. This law works let me tell you. Those who do not follow this rule end up reaping the good or bad consequences of ones actions.

I'm off my soap box......

Later....

SPCL-T


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Portland, Maine, USA
Registered: May 2001
Admin Use

posted 05-19-2001 03:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPCL-T     send a private message to SPCL-T   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by SPCL-T
Here's what I have found out on this topic. The gears are from the OEM, which is the same place that ProwlerPro gets their gears. I believe that G-Force has purchased a larger quantity, therefore getting a better price break. Borg Warner did all the testing in their own labs, since they are the ones building the same (or similar) transmision(s) for other Chrysler vehicles. ProwlerPro was just the ones that either initiated the higher gear ratio, or was the first one to actually put them into the Prowler (?). I've also been told Borg Warner holds the patten on the "silent running" chain, and they are the only manufacturer of it. All of this depends on what story, and from whom you heard it from, and what all you personally want to believe.

Someone stated earlier - "its business." How many people sell the same gear ratio's for an 8-3/4 Mopar rear end? Most of them are probably made by the same vendor, just packaged & marketed differently. Supply, demand & pricing strategy. This land of opportunity that we live in is all about "what the market will bare" and the lead "time to market." My last employer stated this - "bookings & shipments, that all I care about!" Are you people jealous because you paid more? Or because life (business) isn't fare?

It took over a week to get a response from ProwlerPro on their gear sets. They must have been to busy taking care of (potentially over) paying customers? If I had the money to flaunt like some of you people obviously do, I'd gladly drive my car 2000+ miles (each way) to have ProwlerPro work on it, when & if they could fit it in their schedule. But, since not all of us are rich & famous, we MAY have to shop around for more affordable solutions. Nothing personal to any one person or business, just fact.

I believe that this website is for the Prowler Enthusiast's, which I believe we ALL are. So why don't we all stop whining about how other people make profit from our own extravagances, and just enjoy the "Prowler." And we should all stop worrying about how the rest of the world is "keeping up with the Jones's."

My car is the 517th Prowler produced for the public, which means I paid a hell of a lot more for it (well over 3 years ago) than the person that bought their's last week. I'm not going to whine about being the first kid on the block with a new toy, but I will whine about the Customer Service from the DC dealerships, which is another topic I'm sure we all can add to.

Anyway - Wasn't this website created because some other guy was trying to make a profit from the Prowler owners or because the other guy was being TOO greedy? Think about it! What is the difference here?

------------------
SPCL-T

Nelson Weber

Prowler Junkie
Personal ScrapBook

From:High Ridge, Mo USA
Registered: Sep 2000
Admin Use

posted 05-19-2001 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nelson Weber     send a private message to Nelson Weber   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Nelson Weber
This reminds me of Chrysler Corp water pumps back in the 1960's and 1970's. The same V-8 engine was used in the Plymouth and in the Chrysler, the water pumps were the same except for the color they were painted. The Chrysler color water pump cost more than the Plymouth color water pump.
(Good ole capitalism at work)
NVRMND


POA Site Supporter
Prowler Junkie

From:Houston, Texas usa
Registered: Apr 2001
Admin Use

posted 05-19-2001 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NVRMND     send a private message to NVRMND   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by NVRMND
You guys are right on target. I could not have said it better myself! (I am referring to all of the above!)

Much Peace,

Quote of the day "It is not how fast you can go but how long you are willing to go fast!"

OUT

All times are CT (US)  Top of Page  Previous Page

 Return to General Prowler Discussion  next newest topic | next oldest topic



Administrative Options: Open Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | Prowler Online Homepage

All material contained herein, Copyright 2000 - 2012 ProwlerOnline.com
E-Innovations, LP

POA Terms of Service