posted 09-19-2002 12:10 PM                  

Postings have slowed down. Familiar names are missing. Members aren't rising to support new ideas and activities. A big Prowler event is sixty plus cars. And on and on.

Viper next week has their annual Invitational. They expect 1,500 Vipers to drive through Nashville! DC has built roughly the same number of each car. I know Viper has a slight edge but Viper owners have totaled the difference.

Well? Your ideas........let the fun begin! By the way, I'm not looking for a t-shirt. I'm looking for your ideas and involvement. We can't do any more to help keep the facts straight and provide the inside track whether you believe it or not. CJ is constantly running to ensure people have the logo merchandise they couldn't otherwise obtain. Why? To support you.

posted 09-19-2002 12:40 PM                  

Most of the POA people fit this same mold in that some are looking for performance, some appearance, some just the love of Hot Rodding, and others for the social aspects.

The main difference in the Viper and Prowler crowds is that there is a majority of Prowler people (non POA)who bought the cars, drive them on the weekends - if that often - and are not "into" car events & modifications.

I know a lot of POA members seek these people out and try to invite them to the website and events - a lot just are not interested.

As far as posting being down and some familiar names missing on the website - I have noticed that also. Everybody has different reasons, but I can not help but think some of it has to do with rash of negative posts that seem to come much more often than even a year ago.

Based on the # of people who have posted ten times or more there are less than 300 active participants. Certainly not enough to reach 1500 cars at an event.

I would hope we are able to continue to invite more people and realize no one is going to like everyone on the site. One of the things about a great organization is the ability to bring people together with similar interests. We don't all have to be best friends. I have members of my family I probably wouldn't hang out with if we weren't related (sorry Reba, ) but they are still family and we still get together regularly.

One other thought. There are a LOT more smaller events being attended than ever before. It's great that most people don't have to drive 1/2 day or more to get together with other Prowler owners.

This reply doesn't really address what to do in the future. Maybe I will have to think about that a little more.

Happy Prowling

Marty

posted 09-19-2002 12:50 PM                  

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Yellow is DCOOLEST

posted 09-19-2002 01:12 PM                  

I like to take my Prowler to car shows. Of the 22 car shows I've entered this year so far, not one of them had another Prowler for competition. (Maybe that is why I've gottem 16 Trophies). I find it unusual that more people don't want to take their Prowlers to car shows.

I do less postings in the summertime because I'm always outside doing something and rarely use the computer.

posted 09-19-2002 02:31 PM                  

Since I have a Viper & Prowler and visit both sites regularly, I think I can be objective.

The number of Vipers actually SOLD is quite a bit higher than Prowlers. Also, with some guys owning multiple Prowlers (more-so than Vipers), the number of individual owners is probably twice the number of Prowler owners.

The Viper website has been active longer. The Prowler site had a bit of a false start with PPC which may have turned some people off. I actually find the people at the POA friendlier and a lot more helpful. The POA is probably now growing at a faster rate than VCA (although there is a lot of temporary interest there because of the introduction of the new Viper). I don't think there would be a big disparity between the number of regular posters of one site to the other.

I believe (and you could correct me if I am wrong) that DC is much more supportive of the Viper site (and VOI - Viper Owners Invitational), especially financially. It might be tough now to get support from DC for a car no longer in production.

The VOI is planned and run by a marketing/public relations firm and not by a few members (I think). It also includes a day at the track which obviously is very attractive to people buying street race cars. Most people do not buy the Prowler for speed.

The Viper also has a very professional magazine that I feel really complements the web site and regularly lands in peoples laps - a reminder and another communication method.

Ideas
=====

Merge or buy-out Plymouth Prowler Club. Why? There are still people who would go to that domain and then think there really is no active club. Web searches would still bring up the PPC. There is only a need for one club.

Annual Event - perhaps we can make a concerted push to get, say 200 cars at next years event. The larger it gets, the more attention it will receive and then future growth would be self fullfilling. At the event, we need Vendors and DC (parts, memorbilia, concept cars, etc).

Time - I think that in time, more people will find and use the POA. More users = more postings = more ideas = .....

Magazine - what about a trial issue. PPC did one or two. Perhaps we can pick up from there. While there isn't anything in a magazine than can't be found on a website, it is a conversation piece and might reach a different audience. We could highlight a couple of owners and there cars, aftermarket parts, gatherings, etc

Email - should we send an email out to everyone every so often to check out something new on the site - a sort of friendly reminder.

As mentioned earlier - a little less bashing by some individuals would be helpful and keep more people on the site. As you mentioned, there are a number of people missing from a year or so ago that were regular contributors (I won't name names).

I post more as I think of it, but I find this site much better than Viper site, the people are generally more helpful and friendlier and I think it will continue to grow.

posted 09-19-2002 04:37 PM                  

I think Wayne has the VIPER/PROWLER view.

I was in love with the Prolwer from the 1st time i seen it in print. Many bought for investment. I have met so many owners that say the do not use or own a computer, also many are NOT CAR GUYS. This makes it had to contact the owners. DC didn't do anything to advertise the car, they did the Viper, maybe not regular ways but how many races have they WON?

I stopped by many dealers and told them about POA and PPC before POA was formed. People that find PPC and not POA probably think there is nothing here for us.

POA needs more press for it to grow. I have left the Prowleronline.com windsheild banner on the car to help advertise the site. I HATE STICKERS, but I'm proud to have it on my car. I have the POA frame on the cat & trailer plus Sue's PT Cruiser. IF everyone that reads this would have a POA Banner on there car it does get attention and would have to help get the word out. The T shirts and event shirts also help spread the word.

One thing I was thinking about having made for my OTHER vehicles would be a POA license plate for the front using the POA logo.

There are 17 Prowlers in New Castle, IN. and Larry Bell is the only one I know that post from there.

When an event is planned several things must be concidered. A NATIONAL event should be special and timing & Location is EXTREMELY important. The local events are very important but to get 100 to 200 cats together we need people willing to drive there cars. I wanted to make the Colorado event but was the wrong time for me. I also heard others say they couldn't make it because of children in school, graduations, etc.

Media coverage should be attempted. The trip by the Texas possey made front page of the paper. Making a Kids dream come true. By the way has anyone heard updates on Patrick? There has been other news worthy events but not the coverage. Some one has to let them know what we are doing.

Next years NATIONAL event has been decided but who made the decision to the dates? This should have been one of the weekly polls as to what would work best. I for one it DOESN'T WORK.

I hope the POA continues to grow and people go to events. There is nothing like seeing 50 or more cats together.

I think the Viper owners might have the $$$$$ to do more. Poll the active posters, does the Prowler cause you to devert money that should be spend somewhere else, do you have the ability to have unlimited vacations, if money was no object would you attend more events? At reading post some are the daily drivers because they have to be. How many Viper owners use the viper as daily driver because they have no other car.

I know I have jumped around. but the key is be involved, tell people what you are doing, be proud of POA and wear logo as much as you can.

I agree the negative post need to stop. If you do not have anything good to say do not say anything at all. I'm not talking about someone posting they have a problem, but if you have a problem with someone or something you read, TAKE IT OFF THE BOARD.

no where else can you find out more about the cars we love

------------------
Larry & Sue Mayes

posted 09-19-2002 05:31 PM                  

quote:

---

Originally posted by RPL:
At the risk of being beaten and run out of town, think about this for a while. How are we going to move the Prowler community forward? People have kicked in and financially supported this site and club to ensure its continuation. What are we doing to ensure its success?

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RPL,
I, for one, thank you for bringing up an important subject.

When the question of financial support for the site was raised, there were MILLIONS of wonderful ideas of improvements that could be made to justify the improved hosting environment. I suggest we start by dusting off those ideas and continue upward from there. Also, considering the uniqueness of the Prowler, wouldn't this be a more interesting thread without comparing it to the Viper? (and complaining about the lesser support?)

posted 09-19-2002 05:56 PM                  

A POA FLIER, I have seen hers but not read it. What a great way to let others know about POA other han just telling them. If we all passed them out to owners that we meet but do not know about POA or to people who are interested in the car and might become owners.

So we do not reinvent the wheel, if we could have a flier posted that we could print out as needed and blank spaces that we could fill in for anything that might be regional or personal in the flier would be great.

posted 09-19-2002 11:38 PM                  

First off, I have nearly 40 Arizona Prowler owners email address' in the computer. When we plan an event now, we are lucky to get a dozen to show up. At the local car shows, if six or seven cats show up, I get excited. Interest seems to have greatly slowed,,,,,,,,why? I don't have the answer. I think its time for new ideas, new plans, and 'new' people stepping up to promote and plan the events to do. Sometimes I think that planning a once a month event was too much for people to do here and they became isolated from the rest because they couldn't attend all the events, then complete withdrawl took place. I'm thinking its time for me to step aside and let the others do the planning. Debbie Angell has stepped up and is planning a two day event for us and I appreciate her work. Curt Stall planned an event for last week to travel around the eastern part of Arizona,,,,,,,I'm not sure if anyone but him attended? Maybe its the economy, the unsure feelings that people have held since 09 - 11, or the idea of the US plunging into another war conflict? For now, I'll agree with what Marty had to say above. I think he hit the nail square on the head.

One more thing and this is "NOT" a knock or dig at anyone! Other than Woodward Dream Cruise, why do I not see any local events ever posted for Michigan? Home of the Prowler, many owners, lots of car things to do, and yet there never seems to be any group gatherings involved there. I think the California, Texas, and Florida owners seem the most interested in doing things as a group, and I applaud them for that interest and bonding.

posted 09-20-2002 09:24 AM                    

While at the Beloit Autorama last weekend I was approached by a guy about my age (not old nor really young) who said he just sold his '99 Prowler and bought a Viper because the Kat just wasn't fast enough. Now he runs with the Viper crowd and sees a serious division in the group between those that have the car and race it and those that don't (funny how all car clubs seem to accentuate that rift - our Corvette club included). He said he finds himself alienated because he doesn't have "the unlimited financial resources like most of the Viper owners to race his car competitively".

I share that same situation with him, I do NOT have unlimited resources, I do NOT own my own business (like so many of those on this board, it seems), I AM limited to the amount of vacation time or "long weekends" I can take thus making me choose the activities I and my family partake in (Corvette events, children's events, honey-do stuff, family stuff & Prowler stuff), and I find the Prowler more condusive to a day trip/event than a weekend or week-long one for the obvious trunk/storage limitations (no room for trailer, nor would I pay $3k+ for one, not putting on a hitch so no Weekender either ... so self-limiting, sure).

So I think logistics may play a part for Prowler gatherings when compared to Viper attendance (although it sounds like there has been VERY GOOD participation in the past at the events I have read about on this board -- kudos to those that organized them).

Less posts can be attributed to summer time ... I know that this has been mentioned already, but the weather has been dryer than normal and that means "get out and enjoy it" rather than glue yourself to a computer monitor. I use a laptop for business on a daily basis, otherwise i doubt I would have been "visiting/posting" as much as I have during the summer versus the past winter. Will be interesting to "see" if posts increase starting in November. (you folks in warm climates have NO CLUE what we are talking about here, huh? lol).

Lastly, and I couldn't leave this off as soooo many above seem to think it note-worthy as well ... the "bashing" syndrom. I don't think that plays as "key" a role as the "superiority complex" or "bully-gang clicks" that exist here. rather than go into "details", I will just leave it as that. This was something else the gentleman at Beloit commented that he "sees" on the Viper site (he was on the old PPC and never made the jump to POA -- didn't know about us) and feels that these 'clicks' are childish and counter-productive.

In conclussion, Bob, it's hard for a group of enthusiasts to create more support for a vehicle than the manufacturer of it did for it during it's short-lived lifetime. Now that it is a "been there, done that" for them, I wouldn't expect anything more from the corporation than we had seen before (you and CJ are to be commended for all the support, information and time that you folks personally have devoted to this club, this car and all the people who's lives you have touched through your generosity).

posted 09-20-2002 11:31 AM                  

Maybe,as usual,I'm missing the big picture. I've seen great strides in:
-membership to POA (paid support and otherwise)
-new member involvement by posting(public and private e-mails)and attending events(local and regional)
-new friendships due to meeting them on-site and/or in person. One visit with Fixumm or me might cure this, though.
-Prowler person insight, both mechanical - technical post that can say volumes about how creative some solutions have become, and humorous post that deal with the people that post them and the kind of humor they posses. Alleycat, Fixumm and myself tend to be totally whacked, Ed M. subtle and dry like a smooth martini, etc.

posted 09-20-2002 11:50 AM                  

Now what are we going to do?

What are the common threads? Say what you what, your opinion counts. Maybe we shouldn't post things that we wouldn't say to someone face to face. Pretty simple actually. Encourage people to become involved. The growth in the number and geographic spread of events is great. It allows more people to get involved. The board then allows organizers to draw from outside of their local areas. I think that Ed and Larry Mayes have worked exceptionally hard to pull people to even small events.

Being an ambassador to the Club helps. I'm sure that CJ will share her handout by e-mail to anyone interested. It can be modified and personalized.

I know the difference in support that DC has exhibited and that Prowler has been left out. That was from the beginning and won't change. This club is receiving what assistance is possible, limited as it is. Your questions are being answered. Mopar has changed their position on continueing key accessories, because a club member went to bat. That member pushed harder than I would have and succeeded where I didn't think she would. While it isn't widely known, the leader of this club knows that efforts have been made to support the community with limited success.

The bottom line is that we, as owners, really care about the cars and come to care about each other by interacting on the board and meeting at events. Isn't that what a good old American community is all about? Well this is the Prowler Nation and we have no one but ourselves to look out for our best interest. What was that that someone said (I know who it was), Ask not what your nation can do for you but what you can do for your nation.

Keep your thoughts and ideas coming. If you have an opinion, please by all means voice it.

I didn't touch on it, but others have. When, not if, are the two sites going to join forces for the good of all?

And yes AC, Michigan is not the leader in local events. That's been a source of frustration. It's not for a lack of trying.

posted 09-21-2002 12:40 AM                  

I'm a (relatively) new owner. We have a 3-year old daughter. The prowler is BY FAR the biggest investment we've ever made, next to our house. This community and the open, honest and sometimes hilarious discussions were the reasons I said "to hell with it" and I bought the car.

I've never met any of you. You really don't know me from Adam. But I can say in not uncertain terms that when we do meet, I will feel we have something very fun and very strong between us.

Either you get it, or you don't. I think we all "get it". Now, how to move forward?

I agree that somehow contacting other owners who aren't members of this site is a great first step. I also think encouraging/promoting/organizing/attending events is key. Even if it's without your Kat, it's the PEOPLE that are important.

Big, national events are really cool. Smaller, regional events serve much the same purpose — getting together on the basis of common interests to form friendships and have a good time. What more is needed?

I'm here to be active. Owning a Prowler, in my opinion, is not a spectator sport. I want to be involved and I enjoy participating.

Prowl On!

Kevin

posted 09-21-2002 01:14 AM                  

By the way, "I get it, I got it and I am keeping it" (stock except for the mods)

posted 09-21-2002 08:24 AM                  

At the Louisville event I stopped to help Dave Mills with his trailer, now I didn't know who's trailer had a problem it just happened to be Dave, by the time we got to Hubers Farm everyone was seated, This was a good thing for meeting new people. I sat with John & Sharon (Stray Cat) and Mike & Kim V. (KATATAK & KIM KAT). I got to know them some at dinner. Not the way I know others but this is the 1st meeting. Since then I have meet Stray Cat at another events and it seems like we have been friends a long time since I read the post he puts on and you have a FACE to put with screen name.

THERE IS NO STRANGER DRIVING A PROWLER, only a few strange people ....LOL....Most of us that post if we see a Prowler we want to know....WHO WAS THAT AND HOW CAN I LET THEM KNOW ABOUT POA SO THEY CAN JOIN US.

posted 09-21-2002 11:07 AM                  

I'm amazed at the ideas and thoughts that are coming out. The "click" things is interesting. I'm not sure that I was aware of it, but will personally work of this.