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Author Topic:   Prices will start to go back up when
Steve Marcus
Prowler Junkie

From:Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 06-12-2001 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Marcus     send a private message to Steve Marcus   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Steve Marcus
Prices will move back up as soon as it's announced when the last year will be. Sure there are plenty available right now and some of us are considering getting rid of our cats...BUT...as the cars get scarce and production stops speculators will probaly get back into the Prowler business.I'm sure two or three years from now we will be glad that we still have our Prowlers...The only ones that will be available will be used.

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HiHoSilver

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From:U.S. of A.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-12-2001 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HiHoSilver     send a private message to HiHoSilver   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by HiHoSilver
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Marcus:
Prices will move back up as soon as it's announced when the last year will be. Sure there are plenty available right now and some of us are considering getting rid of our cats...BUT...as the cars get scarce and production stops speculators will probaly get back into the Prowler business.I'm sure two or three years from now we will be glad that we still have our Prowlers...The only ones that will be available will be used.


Time will tell but, I seriously doubt it. If that were the case, dealers would not be trying to unload them now. Rather save them for 1 year and make a ton of money on a NEW one.

Best deals I've found are:
New Black-Tie - dealer can't sell it at $43,500.00
New Orange - dealer sold it for a hair under $41K


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Trey
Post 2001 Black-Tie #005
(your welcome Larry)False alarm, it's gone now.

Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet

butchcee


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From:Lake Ariel, Pa.
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 06-12-2001 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for butchcee     send a private message to butchcee   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by butchcee
I agree with Steve. People always want what they can't have, and think the end of production will make the car more desirable. Dealers have been burned by slow sales and will sell at lower profit then take the chance. One in the hand!!

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Yellow is DCOOLEST

HiHoSilver

Prowler Junkie

From:U.S. of A.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-12-2001 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HiHoSilver     send a private message to HiHoSilver   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by HiHoSilver
quote:
Originally posted by butchcee:
I agree with Steve. People always want what they can't have, and think the end of production will make the car more desirable.

I hope your right but, there are a slew of cars out there that when they went out of production, their price continued to drop. How much is a $60K ZR1 worth these days?

I would say that for the price to continue to fall is the norm for just about any car (sports or not)


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Trey
Post 2001 Black-Tie #005
(your welcome Larry)False alarm, it's gone now.

Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet

Roger



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From:Seattle
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posted 06-12-2001 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger     send a private message to Roger   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Roger
I agree with Trey. Any market, be it auto, stocks, or other, is a discounting mechanism of future pricing. If the market were to be higher a year from now, you would find prices firm today. That obviously is not the case.
NightProwler
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From:Chicago
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 06-14-2001 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NightProwler     send a private message to NightProwler   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by NightProwler
I think you'll have to wait 10+ years for price appreciation. Then the rarer Prowlers will likely be worth some bucks-maybe only back to original retail. The IRR may not be great vs. other asset classes from an investment perspective. However, it would probably reduce the standard deviation of returns. Hopefully nobody is foolish enough to compare the return of a Prowler to the stock market in a serious fashion.

The muscle car market is doing exceedingly well 30 years after the these cars were made. Equity stock market has done pretty poor the last 12-18 months but the muscle car market has continued to take off and is growing more prominent. Coefficient of determination of the muscle car market with the stock market appears to be O, on a -1 to +1 scale. So maybe the stock market is not a proxy for muscle car values. Maybe another 20% decline in equities will chew into muscle car values.

Prowlers will have to compete on uniqueness of design, lack of production (I question this because 11,000 units will likely be produced) and looks. Downside is that a lot of todays baby boomers, which are driving up muscle car prices, owned muscle cars 30 years earlier. Today they have some bucks and are re-living there younger years and buying cars similar to what they drove in their late teens and early twenties which is driving up 1970 vintage muscle car prices.

In contrast, in 30 years from today there won't be a lot of former Prowler owners. Many will be in heaven since the average age of an original owner of a Prowler is probably 20+ years greater than the original owners of a 1970 Chevelle LS6 when they came off the assembly line. Also, a lot of Prowlers are already and will be placed in garages. A large percentage of the Prowler fleet will be low mileaged vehicles. Today, you don't see many excellent conditioned 10,000 mile, numbers matching, LS6 Chevelles around. We wont discuss convertible hemi cudas. In 30 years from now I predict you will see a fair amount of low mileage, good conditioned Prowlers (I project a back of the napkin computation of 3,000 as I ask the waitress for another gin and tonic). In the mean time their will be some attrition because the secondary owners probably wont take care of these cars like the primary owners did.

Too much verbiage (excess wordiness)here. Back to ESPN.

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Have a good time and be a good time.

prowlful
Prowler Newbie

From:atlanta, ga, usa
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 06-14-2001 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for prowlful     send a private message to prowlful   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by prowlful
Let's not give the dealers too much credit just yet. The local Chrysler dealership here just sold one the other day, about a couple of weeks ago, for $59K. It just shows that they can still be as greedy as the wanna be especiallly if the buyer does zippo research.

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2001 Silver Prowler
"life is what you make of it"

deelmakur
Prowler Enthusiast

From: CT(NYC), Gulf Stream, FL, Seattle (Kat stays in WA)
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-14-2001 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for deelmakur     send a private message to deelmakur   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by deelmakur
It's not about money, it's about having fun with the car. If you are buying these for investment, you are in real trouble.
KOOLKAT
Prowler Junkie

From:Cocoa,Fl.,USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 06-27-2001 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KOOLKAT     send a private message to KOOLKAT   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by KOOLKAT
1990 ZR-1's can be found for under 25000.00.
They only made 6000 of these.
Prowler up in price.
Give me a break!!!!
Alex

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From:Westminster, CO USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-28-2001 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex     send a private message to Alex   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Alex
I did not buy this car as an investment. Had I wanted to invest my $46K I would have bought some real estate or equities (GE, Coca Cola). The car is fun and can't be replaced, its here to stay reguardless of where the market goes.

Alex

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2001 Orange Kat

BeWare





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From:Acworth , Georgia , USA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 06-28-2001 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeWare     send a private message to BeWare   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by BeWare
I did not buy as an investment on do not plan on ever selling. I have also started personalizing my cat which would probably hurt resell. But like I said I am not going to sell.

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Rich Ware
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ed monahan





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From:Cincinnati, Oh, USA
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posted 06-28-2001 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     send a private message to ed monahan   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by ed monahan
What is a ZR 1? The supply is low but the demand is even lower, that is why the price is down.
HiHoSilver

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From:U.S. of A.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-28-2001 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HiHoSilver     send a private message to HiHoSilver   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by HiHoSilver
quote:
Originally posted by ed monahan:
What is a ZR 1? The supply is low but the demand is even lower, that is why the price is down.

Specialty vette at that time. It had a ton more horsepower then stock vettes and I believe the engine was mostly designed or built by Lotus (or someone like that).

New, they commanded around $60K for the sticker but, most dealers (as with the Prowler a while back) gouged the heck outta them. All this at a time when most vettes could be bought for upper $20K range. If you liked vettes back then (C4 model) this was the one to have and they sold our fairly quick.

It was an extremely hot car for the time (sound like Prowler?) but, as horsepower came up in the stock GM engine, interest fell off for wanting to pay alot for a used one.

I can't think of one car, when production stopped, whether they made 600, 6000, or 6 million, where the price went up. Quite the contrary, they all go down, some alot.

I guess the point they were trying to make was that here was another recent American car, with alot more muscle, fewer built then the prowler, and anyone that bought one would still take a bath selling it, so if you think that just because they stop making the prowler your car will be worth more then you paid for it or even more then used ones are getting now, chances are you are wrong.


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Trey
Post 2001 Black-Tie #005
(your welcome Larry)False alarm, it's gone now.

Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet

NightProwler
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From:Chicago
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 06-28-2001 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NightProwler     send a private message to NightProwler   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by NightProwler
The ZR1 package was an option. A, get this, $26,000 option and the ZR1 looked basically the same as the typical vette. The cost and no special looks is why the car did poorly re: sales. I used to read about ZR1's all the time when they were being produced. Reading bs stuff-lunchtime hobby.

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Have a good time and be a good time.

ed monahan





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From:Cincinnati, Oh, USA
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posted 06-28-2001 11:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ed monahan     send a private message to ed monahan   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by ed monahan
Trey, thanks for the info. I am not a Vette guy, obviously.
HiHoSilver

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From:U.S. of A.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-29-2001 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HiHoSilver     send a private message to HiHoSilver   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by HiHoSilver
quote:
Originally posted by NightProwler:
The ZR1 package was an option. A, get this, $26,000 option and the ZR1 looked basically the same as the typical vette. The cost and no special looks is why the car did poorly re: sales. I used to read about ZR1's all the time when they were being produced. Reading bs stuff-lunchtime hobby.


Basically, except the rear end was slightly wider, different wheels, and a whole different story when you raised the hood. I'll agree, if you didn't know vettes you probably couldn't tell the difference but, those that followed vettes, knew and that was the intended audience.

The real issue was when GM boosted the horsepower of the stock vettes. While still less then the ZR-1, it was getting close enough that the difference in price was not worth it.

I think you'll see the same with the Z06 they have out now. It's basically a striped down vette with the new LS-6 engine in it (versus the LS-1 that all other vettes use)but, that engine will be the standard engine in all vettes in 03 so, the premium for a Z06 will go down and they will probably stop making them too.


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Trey
Post 2001 Black-Tie #005
(your welcome Larry)False alarm, it's gone now.

Mods: 2001 Speed Yellow Porsche Cabriolet

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